Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

Psychologists, admittedly chagrined and a little embarrassed, are belatedly focusing on shame, a prevalent and powerful emotion that somehow escaped rigorous scientific examination until now.

http://www.recovery.org/aa/aa-related/shame.html
and
http://drirene.com/shame.htm

Shame is a deep, debilitating emotion, with complex roots. Its cousins are guilt, humiliation, demoralization, degradation and remorse. After experiencing a traumatic event, whether recent or in the distant past, shame can haunt victims in a powerful and often unrecognized manner

I, personally found this extremely interenting--that

Shame is the master emotion that controls all others, except anger.

Izobell

lemondroppr · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 1467

Shame, interestingly enough, is probably (one of) the core feelings written about from John E. Bradshaw in the late 1980's and early 1990's, as did Anne Wilson Schaef (Co-Dependence: Misunderstood--Mistreated), from the numerous books I've read. I believe Schaef preceeded Bradshaw in looking at shame as a treatment issue, and others may have before her. The late 1980's is when I started working on my codependency issues and shame is one of the biggy's to uncover.

Thanks for bringing it up Izo! And yes, psychologist "should" feel embarrassed (that's a joke) if they haven't been looking at shame as an issue. The concept has been around for a while.

Lemon

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

Hi lemondropper

Thank you for the information. Interesting!

I am now on my way to Google to search for a way to deal with my 'shame-based existence'.

Do you have any hints?
xx
Iz
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lemondroppr · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 1467

Hi Izo!

Well, I highly recommend reading books by the author's mentioned. I have no idea if they are still in print, but they could be (or at your local library). As far as any current literature out there.........there may well be other author's who still talk about shame and codependency. I haven't been able to stay up with buying books for several years for financial reasons thanks to living with a P.

Maybe someone here is more current than I.

Good luck!

Lemon

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

Hi ld

I see my Library carries that book. YAY!! Free.

I can have it for 6 weeks!

xx
Iz
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Echo · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:

Hi Guys, I totally agree with you about the impact of Shame on survivors - its my belief that its not only a residue we are left to deal with during/post P relationship - but was probably an implanted feeling in psyche before we met the Ps in our lives. Leaving us vulnerable to the manipulation etc from a disordered person - it being kind of familiar to us already Confused

Theres a very good book on it called "How to heal the shame that binds you" by John Bradshaw.

Its funny that you are talking about this subject cos I reading a book about adults who suffered child abuse and it is the singularly best book I have ever read on the subject.

The author is kind, thoughtful, highly skillful and informative and speaks straight to the person reading. I would recommend it highly to anyone who suffered or who thinks they might have suffered abuse as a child - its just terrific.

Soul Survivor - Patrick J Gannon.

A fabulous, informative read - an incredible journey companion for anyone that may have such pain in their past and in need of help and healing.

Thanks for bringing this subject up - its really relevant I believe. Echo.

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

I just ordered "Healing the Shame that Binds you", online for 1¢ + $9.98 shipping. <grin> I've heard too much good about it to resist reading it!

Iz
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lemondroppr · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 1467

Yes, good book Izo! Hope you find some help and understanding at a deep level Smile

Lemon

Fwsoon · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 4

shame is what when you were very young..and you were told that's shameful.,..

Kathryann · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 72

Shame is something that I have a tremendous amount of. Shame that I am not good enough for anyone, that comes from what the P did in my life, and basically how I felt BEFORE I met him. I felt so grateful and happy when we were married, but NEVER have I felt as shameful and down as I do now. I'm ashamed of my age and how I look, because it was good enough for him, isn't that sick? I think it was those little sneaky things they say that get you. I know my ex-P husband was NOT interested in sex with me, but his OW was his sex-partner, I guess I wasn't even good enough for that, he said he just didn't have the desire, and since she was younger he had the desire for her, I also have large boobs, and he liked flat chested women with dark skin and dark hair, I'm a blonde. I never took that talk for abuse, I thought it was just conversation.

pinkybubbles · Guest

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

In the articles, which links I posted with the first post, I understood more about shame than I knew before.

There was the mention of very emotional events that were never discussed as a family Unit and that shame results from that too, for one or all I expect?

I had a baby brother die in 1946, 6½ months old. There was no talk of his illness, his treatment, his death, why his body had to lay in our parlour for 3 days, his burial etc. It happened when the eldest of the 5 of us remaining was 10 years old. I was 7. I always wondered if I was the only one puzzled/wondering about little Johnnie. I used to carry him outside and play with him. He was ill only 3 weeks, acute leukemia, and died.

A death, a divorce, well even a new baby--children ought to be told and have the ramifications discussed to their understanding to avoid this feeling of "something is wrong and no one is talking about it".

My father beat us and the animals. He blinded a cow. This was never mentioned, nor was why our mother did not try to protect her powerless children.

I look forward to reading the book
Iz
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al1ve · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 16

Characteristics of Adults Shamed in Childhood

1. They are afraid of vulnerability and fear exposure of self.

2. They may suffer extreme shyness, embarrassment, and feelings of inferiority to others.

3. They fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships.

4. They may appear either grandiose and self-centered, or seem selfless.

5. They feel that "No matter what I do, it won't make a difference: I am and always will be worthless and unlovable."

6. They frequently feel defensive when even minor negative feedback is given. They may suffer severe humiliation if forced to look at mistakes or imperfections.

7. They frequently blame others before they can be blamed.

8. They may apologize constantly and assume responsibility for the behavior of those around them.

9. They often feel like outsiders and have a pervasive feeling of loneliness, even when surrounded by those who love and care for them.

10. They project their beliefs about themselves onto others, frequently engaging in "mind-reading" and constantly feeling judged by others.

11. They often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves.

12. They often feel ugly, flawed and imperfect, and may be overly focused on make-up or clothing as a way of hiding perceived flaws in self.

13. They often feel controlled from the outside as well as within; normal spontaneous expression is blocked.

14. They often suffer from performance anxiety and procrastination and depression.

15. They often lie to themselves and others.

16. They frequently block feelings of shame through compulsive behaviors like workaholism, eating disorders, shopping, substance abuse, list making or gambling.

Original source unknown

ljleedom · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 59 Location: Connecticut

I am interested in shame because it differentiates Ps from their victims. Ps feel no shame. Shame is the feeling associated with having low status, being at the bottom rung of the social ladder. Since Ps have an over active social dominance drive http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/social%20dominance.html
they do not feel shame. They are always top dog in their own mind!

If you think of this definition of shame it can help you to over come it. First of all, the social ladder doesn't have to be that important. More important is our ability to love.
http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/ability%20to%20love.html

We can also change our thought patterns over time if we work at it consciously.
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LJL
ljleedom@aol.com

Izobell · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 20

Thank you alive, for the

Characteristics of Adults Shamed in Childhood

I appreciate. Did you find that on the Internet??

Iz
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