Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

All, I need urgent advice.
My brother has called and left a msg on my cell phone to call him back.
Last time I saw him was New_Year eve when he tried to hit me because I did not obay his rules.
I have not talked with my mother for two days. I am trying to draw new boundaries that I want to cut my phone conversation maybe just once a week. I know what you are thinking, but I am taking baby steps.

I am scared, I am so scared about what my brother is going to tell me or ask me. I am not ready for any "compomsze." Maybe he is realizing I have had it with them and I am not looking back. Maybe he is going to tell me my mother is sick in the hospital because that was the next thing I was expecting her to do. I am scared and I am having a hard time breathing.

Sad

What do I do?
PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

Running2StandStill · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 84

Are you in NC with your brother? If so, do NOT call him back. If he calls you, simply tell him you don't want to talk to him and hang the phone up. Some cell phones allow you to block numbers, if you have one, do that so that he cannot even get through.

If you are in NC with them, their problems are THEIR problems. Not your problems. That's what NC is about.

If you are in contact with your brother, or in minimal contact, keep the conversation to the original reason he called, whatever that may be. Don't take any abuse, threats, or manipulation. If he starts those, tell him you won't be talked to that way and HANG UP.

As far as your mother, relax. The VAST majority of us didn't do NC all at once. Enforcing boundaries is good progress. But...you have to DO IT. If your mother is using your brother as a proxy, simply tell him that your relationship with your mother is between you and your mother and HANG UP. If she is indeed in the hospital and it's not legit but just a ploy for attention, DON'T GO. They need to SEE that you're disengaging and enforcing your boundaries, otherwise they will continue to test and harass.

If your mother is in the hospital for a legitimate health issue, visit her but keep it brief and reasonable. You don't need to spend a week at her bedside or 9 hours a day there. YOU have a life to attend to as well, no matter what she would probably try to guilt you into.

First and foremost, protect your boundaries and do what's best for YOU. Others then need to make their own choices.

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Thank you Running2StandStill, you are good.
I am new in this and I am still trying. I don't know what it is but I am so scared.
My issue is more with my mother, but my brother also has a big role.
I just want to be left alone. I feel better alone.
Thank you so much Running2StandStill.
PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

oaktree · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 362 Location: Minnesota

Well here goes, (I have panic attacks almost daily so I do understand):

1. take five deep breaths, counting to 7 on inhalation, 7 on exhalation.
2. tell yourself you are safe. you are here, and your feet are on the ground.
3. ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen? and then what? and then what? you are still breathing deeply, right?
4. name some items in the room.
5. name some sounds, smells, etc. you hear.
6. now, look at that phone. take a long look at it. If you dont want to answer, dont. If you want to answer, go over what he is going to say and WRITE DOWN what your response will be. If he continues on, just say you cannot talk about this until he starts treating you with respect and hang up.
7. if he calls back and you choose to answer it and he is disrespectful again, hang up.
8. if he wants something from you, try to stay detached and tell him you will give it some thought, or tell him NO. NO MORE. If he keeps on, telling him you will speak to him when he is respectful.
9. if he continues to harass you, unplug the phone.
10. if he comes to your door, do not open the door.

This is it. You are putting up boundaries and he is going to fight this. Be strong. You can do it.
_________________
Once You Have Been Bitten By A Snake, You Are Very Cautious, Even Of A Coiled Rope.

The Dalai Lama

eyeswideopen · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 212

Hi PL,

Take a deep breath..
You don't have to call anyone until your are ready, if or when you are ready. If you do, there is a phone between the two of you, you are safe. AND you have complete control. You can end the conversation whenever you feel you need to. Don't let them give you the guilt trip.. take care of you PL, you come first.
((HUGS))
_________________
"The deeper that sorrow carves into your being the more joy you can contain. Is not the cup that holds your wine the very cup that was burned in the potter's oven?"
Kahlil Gibran

seekingserenity · Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 179

Hi PL,

You are doing great. You've got some really good advice from the others -- use and do what you can.

You can unhook from their tornado of craziness. You've already started. Many people never even get to where you are. It took me so long ... I "woke up" to realizing how much I couldn't stand my Nmom 17 years ago. I'm now only thinking about complete NC. So I know all about baby steps! We do what we can, when we can, and it will work out.

The first time I went NC, both my brother and sister called me all the time with lame reasons for me to contact Nmom. And now, I've pretty much gone NC, or very limited C, with Ndad. This fall my sister called repeatedly for me to contact Ndad. All the tricks in the trade -- she's worried about his health, he's not doing his usual activities, etc. So I break down and call him -- and he was so freaking abusive to me. Ugh.

PL -- you are so kind; please take care.

Serenity

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Thank you all so much! I am reading all of your posts. I am feeling so much better. I am not calling him back and if he calls I will think about if I want to pick it up or not. I do not have to.
Thank you so much oaktree, eyeswideopen and seekingsereity.
((((HUGS))))) to you all.
PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Firstable, thank you ALL so much for replying to my "URGENT" post.

When I was talking to my therapist I was telling her that I did not phone my family to wish them "Happy Easter." She looked at me and she said,
"The telephone works both ways you know." I know me not calling and not attending to Easter dinner at Greek restaurant organized by my N-uncle(which he specifically invited me liked I cared at all) is going to stir things up. They finally would realize we do not have this girl under our tumb. That's right!!!! I was trying to prepare myself and I did not know how because I knew there would be another contact by somebody.

This time it's my brother who has not called me for last 5 month. He patiently waited for me to go back and act as if nothing had happened. Recall, he wanted to hit me on Christmas Eve, because I refused to obey his rules. I remember that night I had decided to feel like an independent successful individual who is independent of the good opinion of other people. It must have been obvious, I could not do that. To them, I am always helpless, lot less than them existence who they can only feel sorry for to show their compassion. It's just never enough; I have become a rocket scientist for God's sake for their love and respect. I have tried so hard, and at this point I felt I no longer needed to because I had learn little about unconditional love and respect for myself, my accomplishments put aside. I had learned to love myself a little without feeling I needed to do something extraordinary. I am the only woman in my very cultural family who can earn decent money and pay bill without depending on a father or husband. That’s a path I have chosen and thank God. They accuse me of not smiling enough at family gatherings.
My mother suggested me to put up a smiley face so people do not think I am jealous.
Wait, jealous of what? Bunch of people being brainwashed by family and walking around in shiny cloths and expensive jewelry, competing for “I am better than your are” position, pretending they are happy is not something I am jealous of and I can never take place in. I am sorry about that. So, go ahead and sue me.

Anyway, so my brother was trying to call me. He had left me a message on my cell phone when I was at work. Later I found out that he had visited my mother and had a long conversation with. I am sure they worked out a plan on how to bring me back in the net. They know, it’s serious. I am not exactly sure what is their interpretation of the reason for my withdrawal from “perfect family”, but I am sure they said things where they had no responsibility for my feelings or they did not have my best interest in mind. I already have told my mother, I feel happy and I need them to let me move on with my life because I no longer fit in in this family. I wished them well in their path whatever it might be, because I know the tribe moves in a very slow speed and that’s okay.

I am here now. I do not know what to think about my brother’s phone call. What is he going to say? What am I going to say? Is he going to apologize? Is he going to tell me I have a right to feel this way and he is sorry. Or is he going to command me to shot up and listen. Is he going to tell me I should obey because he did this or that for me? Or he is going to tell me he will kill himself if I do not visit. I have experience this before, and they still wonder why? Why do I want to be left alone? Because I am better off. The Universe is my home and the people are my family. And I belong with people who recognize the fact that every one is part of unconditional Universal love, with no questions asks.

Thank you guys for reading. PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

Hi PL.

I think being part of a cultural family makes it even worse for us. My whole family is German. They are from Germany and do not understand the way it feels to be born an American. I did not grow up in their country. Then there is the fact that they faced obvious difficulties coming to a new country. There were so many unfamiliar things to learn. They learned the language and started businesses here, but to keep a sense of the familiar, they wanted to keep their old customs and ways. This is another part where they do not understand what it is like for their children. We had to fit in to society too. They expect us to lead a double life, their's and our own. Add to that the factor of Narcissism, and it is a wonder, Pretty Lady, that we even managed to make it at all!

Take heart...you are a survivor of the fittest. Many in our situation don't make it as far as you and I have. They simply resign themselves to the fact that they don't have their own life and give up.

I can give you some very valuable pointers to help you handle the phone calls. There is no way that someone can control you unless you allow it. To help you prevent them from doing this to you, remember the word JADE. JADE stands for JUSTIFY, ARGUE, DEFEND, EXPLAIN. If you can keep these simple principles in front of your mind when you are talking to an aggressive person, you will never allow them to dominate you in the conversation. Never let any make you feel that you owe them an Explanation for your behavior, that you have to justify your actions, that you need to Explain what you are doing, or most of all...Defend yourself. Never let anyone put you in the defensive. When you do that, you've given away all your power.

Simply respond by telling them, "I don't have to justify myself to you.", or "I'm sorry you feel that way, but it what I want to do for myself." Remember that you are always in control. If you feel the person you are speaking with is making you uncomfortable, tell them you've said all you have to say and hang up.

I've had to do this with my own family and I know it saved me from having a mental breakdown from stress. It really works. I don't like confrontations either, but it helps to be prepared.

Another bit of insight I can give you...is that it is normal and predictable that N's will get angry when you try to leave them. They can't tolerate abandonment. It is part of the process. Therefore, instead of viewing it as something out of control, try viewing it as what it is...YOU ARE WINNING! You are winning by virtue of the fact that you are not kissing up to them by staying in the mold they have cast for you, which would make them very happy, (and you, very miserable). So make them MAD! It's either them or you.

Riccy

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Thank you so much Riccy. I am so glad you can relate to a cultural family. One of the things I told my mother was family rules change over time and I do not now what rule I should keep up with and I feel betrayed and discarded by people in my family over and over. I do not really need to walk by the speed the tribe walks by. 25 years from now they will understand my place and IF they will that is, which will be too late.
I already spent my 37 years trying to be the "good girl." Whatever that might mean.
I was telling my therapist that I feel like a outsider and I do not fit in with my family because I feel they constantly judging me. Instead, with my American culture people I feel lot loved, accepted and I feel like I belong with them. Very confusing for me to go back and forth from culture to culture and decide who am I really. But I confidently can say now who I am, because I no longer go back to the dark.
Thanks Riccy! I love the way you put things together.

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

Hi PL.

I watched the Matrix a long time ago, but never made the connection that you did here:

wownowfree · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 266

PL,

My husband always says that if the phone call is important enough, whoever it is will call back. If someone is hurt or in the hospital they can always leave that information on the answering machine. My mother used to leave me bossy messages like, "this is mom, call me!" Demanding I call her back. And if I didn't call her right away, there was hell to pay. I told her that to leave a message what the call is about (usually something she wants me to do) or that I was not going to call her back. And I didn't.

Both my mother and brother always try to sound urgent and mysterious on the telephone. I've learned it's just a tool of manipulation.

I know it hurts, but realize that your brother is a victim as well. He has not yet learned the truth of having a narcissistic mother. However, he is being used as a tool of your mother. She will do ANYTHING, use ANYBODY to get you back under her control.

Don't call them!

The hardest thing I've had to do was turn away from my brother. That hurt more than losing my mother, which actually was a big improvement on my life.

wownowfree

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

wowfree,
I'm in need of advice, NM called, left message on Fri, asking about bd presents for the oldest. Sat night, left a message, angry tone, why haven't you called me back (same as you). I told sister that I wanted to change my number, she feels NM will give up, too much pride. She feels I should write a letter stating that we aren't going to exchange gifts anymore, a memo type sent to my ILs & Aunt/Uncles, etc... so she wouldn't feel singled-out and then the pkgs might stop. Maybe she would get the point. Any thoughts? My DH is encouraging me to do the "formal relationship", just call her once a week, keep it short, no demands, I tried to explain that this is not a normal relationship, I'm weak with the boundaries right now, and she's always going to cross them, this is tough, but so far I'm sticking to the NC. I value and appreciate all of your comments!

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 499

PL, you sound more confident each week. Good for you. Hold your ground.

wownowfree · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 266

WLW,

Thank you for your kind words. I've been through this very same thing. Your husband does not understand they are not normal people. Before I ever dreamed of No Contact (I never, ever thought I could go NC with my own mother), I tried limited contact. I made a mission statemenf for myself that I would only visit/see her on birthdays, holidays, family gatherings, etc. That I would no longer have her in my home without a lot of other guests to minimize her criticisms of me. I vowed to never reveal anything personal, to tell her anything good or bad going on in my life. In other words, have a very hollow, shallow, "for the sake of appearances" superficial "relationship" with her.

Ha, Ha , Ha. That lasted all of 2 months. She would not accept these new boundaries of mine. That's when I went No Contact. It's been 2 years and she is so sick, she doesn't even know that I am NO Contact with her.

One thing I really want to stress to you is that THEY HAVE NO FEELINGS AT ALL. That means that you do not have to call your mother back to avoid hurting her feelings. The only feelings she has right now are extreme rage toward you which is only kept in check by the slight chance she has of using your child to weasel back into your life. If you don't call her back, believe me, she will not be thinking about missing out on her gift to her grandchild, or sharing in her grandchild's birthday, she will be angry at her loss of controlling you and your emotions. She wants YOU to think that she is just caring for her grandchild. They are like a computer virus that plays the same program over and over. So we must do the same. Go back to the first sentence. THEY HAVE NO FEELINGS. You are not hurting her by not responding to her phone call.

To plagerize someone on this forum who once said, responding to her phone call is like waving a piece of meat in front of a hungary dog.

I know we want to believe that they miss their grandkids. I fell for this fantasy for a long time. Remember your own childhood. Did she ever once show concern for you? Has she ever even noticed when you were sad or troubled about something? Then how could she possibly have those feelings toward your kids?

Lastly, I want to say that in my experience, limited contact does not work (unless, maybe you live 3000 miles away -- and even then it is ifffy). I have not heard from anyone on this forum who has had success with limited contact.

Each time we respond to a contact we have to go back to square one. And I'm speaking from experience. Birthdays, holidays are a perfect excuse for them to contact us without having to take responsibility for their words or actions. It's like a get out of jail free card for them. They're counting on our kindness.

Sorry, I rambled. My advice is No Contact -- but whatever you decide, we're all here to support you.

Best,

wownowfree