Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

Hi, I am new here. Just recently, I found myself in a place I never thought I would be in. Over and over I hear myself asking myself... 'How did I not see it?".

Anyway, here's my story:

A little over a year ago, I got a message on classmates.com - it was from an old dear friend whom I met in college some 15 years ago. We hung out in the same circles, use to go out as a group and such. I always held him in high regard, though at that time I had never really been physically attracted to him - and back then, when you are 19 or 20 or so... physical attraction is so important. I had always thought that he and his roommate always seemed to 'show up' at the places me and my friends frequented b/c his roommate seemed to really like mine. When this friend got in touch, he told me that was not the reason. The reason was he had always had a thing for me. He too had always held me in high regard, and I was the one he never could seem to 'catch'.

He was legally separated from wife #2 - told me horrible tales of her. Occasionally he would even cry about some of the things he said she did to him. I felt so badly for him. He said that they had slept together practically on the first date, she got pregnant, and he married her because of that. Then found out months later that she was a crack and crystal meth addict. He was so horrified that he was 38 years old and working on his 2nd divorce... he often said he wished he could just run away and hide. He would tell me stories about growing up, and how his parents always regarded him as the ‘golden boy’, he could do no wrong. How he was so smart and excelled at almost everything. He said that he married wife # 1 because it just seemed to be the ‘next logical step in life’. They were married for 10 years, but after the birth of their daughter, things just seemed to fall apart. He said that since college he had often tried to seek me out, but because my last name had changed, it was difficult (until he recently joined classmates and searched me using my old last name). He had even tried between the 1st and 2nd marriage, but to no avail. He said initially, the 2nd wife had completely blown him away... she was young (10 years younger than him), and very pretty and he was so flattered that someone as young and pretty as she was would find him attractive. They had a little boy, and he pretty much cared for him alone for the first two years b/c she was always disappearing for weeks at a time, and before he realized it, over $20,000 was gone from their savings. He cut off her money supply, and that's when she started becoming very vindictive. He had told me how he had become the youngest executive at his work, and that he kicked and clawed his way there. He was driven to succeed at any cost. Ultimately, he lost his 'great job' where he would soon become a millionaire on paper... he blamed it all on her.

Initially, when we got back in touch, it just seemed like he needed a friend to talk to.... to help him transition out of 'hell' and back to a 'normal' life. I supported him emotionally, encouraged him to seek professional counseling, but he did not. Instead, he preferred to hang out with me with increasing frequency, and I was only happy to oblige... after all, it was wonderful to be back in touch with such a dear old friend. The more we hung out, the more he would tell me about how crazy he had been for me all those years ago, and how he had thought about me and carried a torch for me all of these years. He even said that he had been in love with me all of this time. Over the course of 2 months, the friendship quickly grew into a romantic relationship in which he professed me to be the love of his life. He seemed so sincere, smart, hard working. A man of integrity. What a horrible blow life had dealt him. He was so charismatic. I admired how easy it was for him to influence people. How well he seemed to bounce back from such a horrible ordeal. I was falling in love with him. About 3 months into the relationship, we started talking marriage. We both were on cloud 9. He would do sweet little things that made me feel like I was the only woman on earth. When I looked in his eyes, I saw nothing but sincere love.

Around that time, I had also encouraged him to apply for a position at a local corporation. He did, and landed the job. Shortly after, he moved to my city (he had been living with his parents nearly an hour away). We spent nearly every minute away from work together, planning our marriage, looking for houses together, and ultimately deciding on one, that was convenient to both of our jobs. Every thing was wonderful. We spent the next few months doing everything together, going on short weekend get-aways, shopping for wedding rings in antique stores, sharing our dreams, talking about our past in college, his past with his two “nut job” ex wives and how they treated him so badly, etc… Then one night, he seemed distant. I knew something wasn’t right, but just KNEW it wasn’t our relationship b/c he was constantly telling me how in love with me and hated it when we had to be apart when we worked. The next day, I asked him if anything was wrong... He told me that he felt he was on the verge of depression and needed to step out of the relationship to work on his 'issues'... that the break would be only temporary while he sought counseling. It was like an 18 wheeler side swiped me! Why did he feel the need to distance himself from me? What was wrong with me that we couldn’t work on this together? I asked if someone else was involved and he got PISSED!! beyond pissed. Said if he didn't feel like he could move forward with me right now, how could he move forward with anyone else? He again stated it was only temporary til he figured things out. That he was still in love with me, still cherished me and still wanted to marry me. 3 months pass, we talk about 4 times per week (down from about 6 times a day)...and he stopped talking to me on a personal level. It was always about work, or something more general. When I tried to talk on a more personal level, he would abruptly find some excuse to get off of the phone. When I would confront him about that, we’d always end up arguing… then he would say that he didn’t return my call b/c I always ended up ‘nutting up’ on him. He doesn't go see a counselor, doesn't go to a doctor.. he's laughing and joking on the phone, not acting depressed at all. We got together for dinner maybe 2 times during that time, and again he doesn't seem to be depressed. Something's not right yet, everytime I ask about counseling he gets defensive, saying that he just doesn't have the time right now, work is keeping him too busy but that he still planned on going so that we could get back together. All of this doesn't sit well with me, I am uneasy most of the time, anxious. I felt like I was going crazy, that maybe my own judgements were ‘off’. Began wondering if something was wrong with me. I start riding by our new house at night... he's never there. I figure that he's probably staying at his parent’s house (an hour away). I start making every excuse and believe every excuse he gives me b/c it's always followed by how much he loves me and wants to be with me, but right now he just can't. Then, one day I see him with another woman. I confront him... he say's "its not at all what you think" that she was just a 'staff member' who brought him home when he was sick, and that he was so sick that he went to bed at 7:30pm - I told him, that may or may not be true, but one thing that I know to be true was that he was not in HIS bed at 7:30pm b/c I had ridden by that night much later than that. I told him I couldn't take it anymore, he wasn’t' acting like someone depressed and seeing him in her was just awful. He maintained that I was the only one in his life and that he was still working on his 'issues' so we could get back together. I told him I was done.

I wanted to remain friends, so I kept in touch with him. One day, about 2 weeks later, I asked him to let me know before he started dating someone else, and that I would do the same... he fell silent. I asked him "are you seeing someone". He first denied it, then after I pursued the question, he admitted that he was. I asked if it was the girl from work who gave him a ride and he said 'yes'. I asked how long they had been seeing each other; he said, "It's a recent development". Then proceeds to tell me how crazy I have been acting, and that the reason he didn't come back into the relationship was b/c he was not going to 'subject himself to 'those' types anymore". He would refer to our arguments as my "nutting up"... and I pointed out that I would not have 'nutted up" if he had just been honest with me... that each time we had an argument was b/c he was shutting me out, coldly, without explanation, or when I found out he had lied to me about something. He had no reply for that. Each situation he described me, as ‘nutting up’ is when I confronted him about his behavior not being consistent, that what he was telling me and what he was doing were two different things. That it was frustrating to hear that the person you love is depressed, yet they aren’t’ acting that way, and they aren’t following through with getting help like they said they would. This was in March. One month ago, I found out that he and the girl from work were not only living together now, but are planning on getting married in the Fall of this year. What a blow! She is 13 years younger than him, and she has money. Go figure. He hasn’t even been legally divorced one year yet, and he’s already planned marriage with two different women.

Now that some time has passed, I look back and see several red flags – how he’s always right, he’s never to blame – it’s always someone else’s fault, all of his ex’s are “nut jobs”. How he has always regarded himself above everything. Once, during one of our weekend get aways he said to me “we are better looking than most people”… I was flabbergasted! How could anyone think such, let alone actually say it out loud? Still, it doesn’t take the hurt of it all away. I thought he genuinely and sincerely loved me, when in actuality, I was just a pawn. This man marries, divorces and remarries at dizzying speed… yet, I thought our situation was very different. I thought he was sincere b/c of our past history together. I never would have gotten involved with someone with so much baggage – our history clouded my judgment. I trusted him because we had previously been friends. He played my sympathy. In the end, I was just ‘played’… and that is so difficult to deal with or accept. He seemed so sincere! He seemed to be so in love. He was doing and saying all the right things. Now he’s trudging along happily, moving well along with his next victim while my life still feels like utter chaos.

I recently came across the narcissistic abuse website, and was blown away by how much the information sounded like my ex. The more I read, the more I was convinced this guy is a narcissist… and also began to realize that my mother is one as well. All of my life, I could do nothing right. I’ve always been told by her that “I am such a difficult person”, that “I am very difficult to live with”, that no one would ever love me b/c I was so selfish and hard to get along with. I have several life long friends, many of whom were mortified at some of the things my mother did as I was growing up – like tape recording all incoming and outgoing conversations on the telephone. We (my father, brother and I) always walked on eggshells in attempt to maintain peace in our home. If something didn’t go my mother’s way, she would fly into a rage and we would all run and hide. I read in some of my narcissist research, that children of narcissists often find themselves in relationships with other narcissists. I guess, that explains a lot, but it still hurts beyond explanation.

Can anyone relate?

lemondroppr · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 1422

Welcome louxloux.

To answer your question, yes, probably everyone here can relate to your story. I am sorry you went through the crazy-making and I'm glad you found us.

Keep reading and then read some more. Please keep coming back Smile

Lemon

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

thanks lemon,

somehow, it helps to get it out of me; to tell other people. Makes it more 'real'. I swear, the past year has seemed more like something out of a movie than my own life. Sometimes I wonder if I dreamt it all.

As far as my Mom - I haven't lived in her household for nearly 20 years now. I do still have contact with her, but don't take her words to heart - I recognize the manipulation now before she barely is able to get the words out of her, lol - and I simply tune her out or if she insists on forcing her opinion or remarks on me, I either remind her how old I am, or I leave. I had accepted her and found my own way dealing with it constructively long before I knew it was 'narcissism'. Every once in a while she will say something that cuts right to the bone, but I don't flinch or react in any way. If she gets any clue that it bothered me, she'll definitely use it again. Weird how we learn to adapt to our environment even when we don't really understand what we are dealing with. The stuff she's done and said through out my childhood have had a profound affect no doubt - more likely than not the reason I immediately jumped to self-doubt, and self blame in this relationship (the anxiety experienced in this relationship was very familiar/similar to that I remember when I was a child). I don't buy into those harsh degrading words anymore, but I guess your learned reactions don't change as easily. I know that I am not a selfish bitch, I know I am not difficult to be around, I know I am lovable if I just give someone a chance and yes, i may have some physical flaws - but who doesn't? Perfection was never meant to be mortally attainable. It's a myth or whatever we make of it.

Anyway, thanks again - to you and everyone who read my story.

God Bless.

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 814

Hi, I read your story with lots of similaritys, I used to think there should be a register that warned other Women and Men about these people but noone would believe us they are so believable and so charming its sickening
I'm so sorry you went through this,both with your Ex and your Mother
We all have faults but essentially we are good people in our hearts
and please dont let anyone undermine your true worth
You Are Special Smile

Hugs with best wishes to you for a better future

Movedon
xxxxxxx

ocean · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 320

My heart goes out to you, for the unbelievable pain first living with such a degrading mom, and then followed up by an ex from hell.

But through it all you have adapted and grown, you saw how all this fit together and you managed somehow to extricate yourself from mr, horrid.

I really hope you are not down on yourself, how could you have known this man you became entangled with was deranged.

I am glad you found us, read all you can learn, you know knowledge is power, trust that.

I feel for the lady this man is with now, for surely you know he is using her as well,,

Stay safe, and keep writing, others will benefit from your story, and his is the blessing you give the world.

Thank you for coming here, I sincerely wish you did not have to.
ocean
we are here to help and offer encouragement for your healing,

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

Thank you movedon and ocean for your replies.

I do feel for his newest victim. At times, I want to seek her out to warn her - that urge is so overwhelming - but then I know she is probably at the point I was around 6 months ago: if someone would have told me about what he's capable of, I would have never believed it b/c it would have seemed so out of character from the person he's presented himself to be. He's good at getting and staying in that character as long as you are still the 'desired' one. When he suddenly decides your not, it's cold and swift. You don't know where it came from, what happened or how to react.

One of the hardest things has been that I didn't see it. I am usually a very perceptive person. Again, he's so good at getting into character and is so seemingly sincere that I fell for it. I am getting better at cutting myself some slack, but at times I still agonize over it.

I do realize that I am fortunate to have figured it all out to a great degree - many people don't ever figure it out and go on to repeat the same patterns over and over. I count myself lucky and blessed most of the time, but some days I still wake up in that "why did this happen to me?" mode or I think about something that was said or done that is in stark contrast to what I now know and wonder "am I right? am I interpreting this right or was it REALLY me??" Those are really weak moments - its the time when I have to fight off the urge to try to connect with him again. I get so angry with myself at those times b/c I KNOW I am right, but hate it when I start self-doubting again. I guess I need validation from others that I am interpreting things correctly. When I step outside of my box and look at the larger picture, I can see where anyone would need that validation given the same or similar circumstances. Still, I hate second guessing. I can't wait til I get to the point of emotional consistency.

Another part of the problem is, I haven't fully mourned the loss of the relationship in general. I haven't allowed myself to. It's too uncomfortable. I've just been dealing with the fact that I was played by him specifically. When it was good, it was very good - in fact, it seemed to be the most healthy and supportive relationship I had ever had. I remember thinking that it was almost too good to be true - well, it was. Something that fuels the fire is I terribly miss having someone in my life - that knowing that someone genuinely cares for and loves me - knowing that I have someone to come 'home' to.; someone whom I find attractive and genuinely love, admire and respect. I miss having someone who loves and accepts me as I am (I know that I am a good, decent loveable person - but grew up criticized and made to feel worthless - with him I didn't feel like I needed to 'act' ok). I am lonely. I am still confused at times. I know I will eventually and effectively mourn the end of the relationship... but I want it yesterday, lol. As patient as I am with other people, I am not very patient or forgiving with myself.

ocean · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 320

YOu write so eloquently of your inner world, such a dear soul you are, and it there that the answer will come to your loneliness you will at some point when rationality and letting go merge ,,you shall see that loving yourself is the answer.

U know that needing another is only inviting the same type of delusion, and maybe he saw that within you, that hunger that these particular breed of monsters can smell.

And he knew you had a beautiful spirit, so be kind to that beautiful spirit dear one, he targetted you, but now you are free to live a life of freedom, to do whatever you want , go wherever you want, sleep in, eat in bed, stayup all night, bath whenever you want, eat at any time, make a mess, go on vacation whenever you want, have whomever you want, do any class, no answering to a lunatic, no distrust issues, learn to love your freedom,,that will save you

YOU ARE FREE
ocean

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

God Bless You

dollydagger · Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 331 Location: ATL, GA

Louxloux...you are right, our situations are very similar, give or take a few facts. Mostly it was our knowing our Ns for so long that threw us. We thought they were trustworthy and out for our best interests. The fact that they can move on so quickly is proof that we gravely misjudged them. We can only walk away and chalk it up to a hard lesson learned about trust.

Fifty and lonely · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Washington

Funny how we can see all the red flags when it is too late. Mine has been going on 20 years. At the age where it is hard to move on now. The fact that he is gone, makes you the lucky one!

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

Fifty and lonely · Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 21 Location: Washington

I absolutely agree. The new girl will either submit to his N behavior or figure out something is terribly wrong and get out. I like to think we are good people and that means we are always looking for the good in others. Unfortunately we have found out the hard way that the world is full of some very bad people. The fact that we can talk about it means we have not been beaten down. We still want to find the good. We still have hope of finding the right one or being happy with the family we have. The key word is hope.

ocean · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 320

loux

thats it, not till the damage has been done that you realize it, funny how that is so true, but if we go through life with a suspicious nature, they call us paranoid,

This other woman, I hope for her safety its over soon.
ocean

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

well ocean, it may well be over soon - or maybe she'll start to realize soon.

I found out through family friends that he was referring to her as his 'date' rather than his 'fiance' at a recent social function for his parents 50th anniversary. I'm sure his motivation for doing so, is because he fully realizes how nutty it is for him to become engaged so quickly to every woman he gets involved with and that others would question and judge him in a very negative way about that (his ego cannot handle that) ... still, if she was anywhere around when he called her his 'date', it had to hurt her and cause her some questions and curiosity. It hurts to be minimized, to get a glimpse of how they really 'view' you; though I am sure he came up with a perfectly good reason to justify it.

For some time now, since he admitted to me that they were going to get married, I've scanned the weddings and engagements section of the newspaper each weekend just to find out more about her. I am curious about her, which I think is normal. Thus far, no announcement (probably for the same reasons he called her his 'date' in front of family and friends - and also because he uses engagement as a means to secure devotion from women, while he fails to give it in return). Slowly but surely though, I am starting to care less and less about what he's doing, how he's doing, etc... sometimes still, something does still spark a memory of different ways he discarded me and made me irrelevant (to him) although that happens with much less frequency and intensity. I get angry when that happens, and wish someone would treat him in such a way that he would be unable to think it anything except karma for how he treated me and others - but ultimately I do realize that he lacks the self-awareness and empathy required to make such a realization. Alas, he is the one stuck and doomed to create and recreate his own 'hell' over and over without ever recognizing why or how. I have been spared, truly by the Grace of God. I am not stuck; I can recognize unhealthy patterns and by doing so I can change those patterns. Realization and taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions are the KEY. He'll never get that.

I've always said that there is a reason for everything. I am just starting to learn, that the reason for this experience was to bring to light my 'unfinished business' so that I can finally unload all this emotional baggage I've been carrying around my whole life. I thought I had dealt with it, but my reactions to the end of this relationship - the self doubt, the self-blame, etc... showed me that I had not fully dealt with it in such a way that I would not relapse into that mode given a similar set of circumstances. Had it not been for this experience, I probably would not have realized how much this stuff has impacted my life as soon as i have, if at all. So in a way, I've found gratitude because now that it has come to surface, I can face, challenge and change. In the end, I believe I will become a healthier person because of all of this. I'm not affraid to look back now and challenge all of the criticism and negative self-talk that I learned from N-Mom. What is learned can be relearned in a healthier way. I want a healthy and stable long term relationship. The only way to get there is to work through all of the things that have been holding me back.

Thanks for listening

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 814

I have read all your story and what comes out of it to me is your a very lovely lady sensitive caring loving, thoughtful and wanting to be needed and shown love
Theres nothing wrong with that , After years of everyone making me feel insecure I find theres always someone who will put you down no matter how nice you are to them.
My friends used to say you have M_U_G tattooed on your forehead your too soft
I guess we are all what we are, and some aspects will always be there , but we can change our point of view of ourselves
That comes with being kind to yourself you seem kind to everyone else
be kind to you now
You are a good person
and if anyone says your not tell them "well movedon says I'm a good person"

wishing you a very happy life in my prayers, your story has touched me deeply

Hugs movedon
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx