Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

femfree · Site Admin Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 654

Excerpts from So You're in Love with a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri

HEY ALEX - where are you?

Your words simply cannot be silenced. Your website brought humour to this nightmare situation. We've captured some of your words. I hope you are resurrecting your website soon. It is terribly missed. You are terribly missed.

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From my collection of excerpts:
Narcissists love passive aggression because they get to be cruel, sadistic and punishing without having it overtly look that way. They can pull nasty stunts and have it look like an accident or like the responsibility of someone else, most likely you.
Passion Aggression by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

People with prolonged exposure to narcissists need intensive therapy. They're often on anti-depressant medication and have health problems like migraines and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. They've forgotten their purpose in life and they feel numb. They can have symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or Prolonged Duress Stress Disorder.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

Whether they're born or made; whether they're classified just right in the DSM or not; whether they're 'mentally ill' or 'emotionally ill;' whether they're severe NPD, 'narcissistic type' or "only" have 'narcissistic tendencies,' doesn't matter here. Leave all that to the university guys. Study it yourself after you're out and away and he's leaving you alone. The abuse hurts you deep and hard no matter what labels and qualifiers are slapped on the narcissist. Try all the maneuvers you want, but if he's close to you, if you're in contact with him, he'll hurt you.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

Research away, but never forget that the reason you're looking into NPD is because you've been emotionally devastated at the hands of a psychopath. Start feeling sorry for them or thinking that there's some hope and you've not only shifted accountability for their abuse away from them, but you've given yourself a reason to keep at it. To stay. To love him more and try harder. Boom.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

A very few extremely lucky targets (as target luck goes) are dealing with a Train Wreck Narcissist. These jewels will, often without warning or provocation, leave suddenly and completely with as much cruelty and abuse as possible and are never heard from again. Often they will sniff a hint of intent on your part to end or at least abate the abuse you're enduring, and in a knee-jerk response they'll do what they perceive to be abandoning you before you abandon them, and they'll do it coldly, harshly and totally.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

If you're laying in bed weak with the flu and have four or five kids galloping around needing parenting, he'll go ahead and knock off work early on Friday and go on a four-hour kayaking trip with a couple (predominantly female) friends. Then he'll call you from the parking lot on the way home and ask if he can pick you up some soda crackers or something, and expect to be showered with appreciation and await your tears of joy at having someone so deeply considerate as he. When you fail to do so, it will be YOU and your COLD, unloving self that is responsible for any ensuing tension.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

Here's where some of us trip up. We love giving love, and love it when it's well-received. Here's the fact of it: It ain't love they want. Love is deep. Narcissists have the depth of a sidewalk mud puddle. They only want love to the extent that it looks like worship. They like, "Oh, I just loved the way you parked the car. How do you do that, always so straight and just the right distance from the house (moonstruck looks, starry eyes)?" They hate, "I love you, and I was wondering if you thought about the future." Even if that's presented after 12 years together, you're on a romantic boat trip and you're pregnant, it will be processed thusly: "RED ALERT! RED ALERT! Assault! Attack! You want to rip away my freedom, eh?
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

When we leave the Narcissist, it's because the abuse has gotten intolerable. Afterwards, when he calls us and pushes the buttons he knows extremely well, the temptation to give him another chance can be overwhelming. We're hurt; we're mad; we want to recoup some of our losses; we love him and want it to work; we just can't believe that anyone would be so warped as to hurt us that way, so we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All roads point to trying again with the N.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

I assume we all agree that with Narcissists, we're generally dealing with two people: The guy he is, and the guy he pretended to be. You miss one of them. I take it we all know which one. Pretend Guy is gone. Deceased. This hurts. This really hurts. It needs to be mourned. In addition to the loss of Pretend Guy, you've got mucho grande abuses heaped on you by Actual Guy. Topping off this pile of misery and trauma, Actual Guy and Pretend Guy inhabit the same body. Only another psycho wouldn't be thrown into a tailspin by the surreality of it all.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

Pretend Guy is gone. Deceased. This hurts. This really hurts. It needs to be mourned. In addition to the loss of Pretend Guy, you've got mucho grande abuses heaped on you by Actual Guy. Topping off this pile of misery and trauma, Actual Guy and Pretend Guy inhabit the same body. Only another psycho wouldn't be thrown into a tailspin by the surreality of it all. When he calls you after the breakup, he sounds just like Pretend Guy! 'You're alive!,' you think. 'You're not dead! Yes, YOU are my true love! You're finally back! Oh, WHEN can I see you?' Whoa, there, Sister. Let me spare you a tiny bit of hurt here by having us skip ahead to where he slams you again and you wake up in the harsh, cold world of Reality. Things just got even worse. Pretend Guy is still gone, Actual Guy is still abusing you, Pretend Guy and Actual Guy are still the same guy, AND now any baby steps into healing you might have made just got deleted into nothingness.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

The most common form of narcissistic devaluation is the blame-and-bolt maneuver.
The Devaluation Funhouse by Alexandra Nouri

you immediately begin to try to reason with him or find out what brought this on, and that, of course, is rich, full-bodied attention directed at him, the nectar of narcissistic life.
The Devaluation Funhouse by Alexandra Nouri

And you wonder how he's feeling. Of course you do; not only are you sensitive and caring (Narcissists don't pick hardasses for partners), but you're conditioned to feel that way. The entire relationship was about him and his wants and needs. He literally trained you to think of little else. The real you, the pre-N you, doesn't want an abusive, mentally ill, inconsistent, selfish freak, ridiculous in his pandering for attention, chock full of contempt and inner conflicts that spill out and burn you. The real you wants a real partner.
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)

For the rest of us, we need to heed the experiences of my online friend L. L's man came on strong. Charming. Wonderful. They married, and he immediately became selfish, cold, and ambivalent about their marriage but refused to leave; he was unempathic, wildly defensive and manipulative. He was a Narcissist. L knew something was morbidly wrong, but she stayed; he'd grow distant, she'd work to make it better. How long did this go on before she read the writing on the wall?
Friend L stayed with her narcissist for three decades, until she 'selfishly' left him to preserve the remaining shards of sanity she had. I wonder if she has any regrets about leaving and wishes she could have him back, or if she has any general advice for the rest of us. Let's ask her, shall we?
Alex: Hey, L. Do you have any advice for the gals out here who are on the fence about their Narcissist partners?
L: G E T! O U T! I WENT THROUGH YEARS OF HELL. I SHOULD HAVE LEFT THIRTY YEARS AGO. I WANT MY THIRTY YEARS BACK!!!
So, You're in Love With a Narcissist by Alexandra Nouri (with permission)[/

The website of Alex Nouri is gone. Lynnezer (member) has written me with copies she had of Alex's website (4 pages) I'm parking them here for now.

1

OK. On a less ascerbic note.

Now, we know love is a good thing. Good love involves exchanging respect, affection, time and support with someone special. It feels good and when it has rough spots the two parties work them through.

But the harsh truth is that there are those among us who don't love. And when they pretend to, at our expense, that's a painful thing for the rest of us. They pretend to love because they know we'll love them back and they like the way it feels when we adore them and struggle to make a relationship with them work. It makes them feel special.

But one day we look up and we see that we're the one putting in all the respect, affection, time and support, and they're taking it as well-deserved worship and hold out their hands for more.

We try to work through rough spots. And with a narcissist that's where the REAL ouchies kick in.

In rough spots good people look at the matter and review their own role in it as well as that of their partner. Narcissists are so desperate to always look perfect to themselves that the chances are zero of them ever considering they might have caused someone discomfort. So, if the two of you have a problem, guess whose fault it is?

In rough spots good people look toward the goal of working it out and going on in better understanding. Narcissists would rather dump the whole thing and start fresh with someone else. If you're with a narcissist, your purpose in life is to reassure them that they're as perfect as they want to be. So, if you find that there's something imperfect about them and show it, as in your saying, "You hurt my feelings," "But you said you'd call. I needed to hear from you," or "Why did you spend our whole night at the party talking to the pretty woman from work?", then you aren't doing your job and may need to be replaced with someone much weaker or more troubled. (Healthy, strong people defend their due and their boundaries in relationships. Narcissists hate that.)

In rough spots, good people engage in logical though maybe passionate debates about the issues. They ask each other what they want and use that information to make each other and themselves happy and fulfilled. A narcissist may very well ask you what you want; they'll then use that information to manipulate you by threatening to withhold what you need and try to extract more attention and reassurance from you. And this is what you'll get in return: punishment for having challenged their perfection in the first place. Threats of abandonment. Accusations. Contempt.

Does all this sound far-fetched and like a lame made-for-TV movie? Then you've never had an encounter with a narcissist.

If you're with a narcissist, do research. Write your feelings down. Get some therapy. Do whatever helps, but before you do anything, get out. Just get out. And don't look back. The view ain't pretty.

2

Any more traits lying around here?

"Exploitive..." Oh, ignore that. It sounds so negative. They don't 'exploit,' per se, they just... 'enjoy and don't bother reciprocating.'

Let's say you're seeing a dashing, sensitive narcissist. You meet at the beach, have a picnic that you brought, you listen to his bitching and tell him what a masterful work of art he is; you walk back to your house, you make love; he naps, gets up and showers, and, with a kiss, of course, leaves and you don't hear from him for a week. A "normal" guy might call, send flowers, ask you out the next night, take you to meet his friends, something boring like that. But a narcissist, he's got things to do! People to see! PRIORITIES! If you say, "I need to see you more. I feel like you don't take us seriously," he'll probably respond with a reassuring and comforting selection from the following, meant to end the discussion cold:

"I know. This is hard."
"I just don't know if I can."
"Maybe you just need to decide what we have is enough."
"But this is special. Like a summertime affair. We're like kids again."
"I do take it seriously. It just doesn't seem that way to you. Maybe something's wrong with you."

"Sense of entitlement..." Well, yes. When he's the most special, unique butthole in existence, he has certain perks. One is that he gets to do whatever he wants, to whomever he wants, right at that moment. This is particularly so as applied to you, the one who loves him. He gets to flirt and not have it bother you. He gets to ignore you and have you gush with joy when you see him next, like some codependent Irish Setter. He gets to tell you it's over and dump you and then come back to your open arms when he's short on attention from other people. And, most of all, he gets to soak up the attention you give him, bask in it, and then sneer at you and go get more from someone else.

If your Narcissist throws you a crumb of attention, take it and savor it and deluge him with appreciation for it. Do NOT under ANY circumstances snort with disgust and drop his sorry ass to free yourself up for someone much, much better. Hang onto him at all costs. ALL COSTS. This won't do you a damn bit of good, but it will help keep him away from the rest of us.

3
So, you're in love with a narcissist. That is SO cool; I'm guessing these are probably the best days of your life. Yeah, they have their foibles, but aren't they so emotionally satisfying, and just fun, fun, fun?

Ack.

Let's peek at some traits.

"Usually above-average intelligence..." Compared to what? They have abilities and can perform necessary tasks just like any other psychopathic lunatic, I'll give them that. But these people are the stupidest people on Earth. There is ZERO depth to their awareness.

Take your last conversation with him (permit me the traditional pronoun here, please, gender-aware reader). Did you come away feeling enlightened? Enriched? Like you'd 'shared?' Or like you'd just tried to speak with a drunken baboon vaunting an attitude problem? Was it a mutually beneficial exchange of ideas, opinions or feelings, or was it you being sane and trying to make the simplest of points and him copping a defensive stance that would make the Iraqi Army jealous, using doublespeak and laughable (if they weren't so ugly) non sequiturs designed to flummox you and make him look victorious?

IQ aside, only a moron would take a clear statement such as, "You contradicted yourself, and I need to know what you really meant," and internally process it thusly: 'RED ALERT! RED ALERT! Attack! Assault! Oh, so I'm contradicting myself, eh? You think I'm just a contradicting, know-nothing, argumentative horse turd, eh? You think I'm just a worthless dumb-ass jerk, eh? Well, I'll show you! I'LL GET YOU FOR THAT!'

Look at him with love and devotion and say, "I need to know what you mean when you say, 'This relationship is a side-track event.' Do you understand?" He'll look like a deer caught in your headlights, and then collect himself and say, "Of course I understand. You're confused by facts and logic."

Hm. Brainy.

"Seeks out adulation..." Here's where some of us trip up. We love giving love, and love it when it's well-received. Here's the fact of it: It ain't love they want. Love is deep. Narcissists have the depth of a sidewalk mud puddle. They only want love to the extent that it looks like worship. They like, "Oh, I just loved the way you parked the car. How do you do that, always so straight and just the right distance from the house (moonstruck looks, starry eyes)?" They hate, "I love you, and I was wondering if you thought about the future." Even if that's presented after 12 years together, you're on a romantic boat trip and you're pregnant, it will be processed thusly: "RED ALERT! RED ALERT! Assault! Attack! You want to rip away my freedom, eh? Tell me what to do, eh? You think I can just be your puppet? You think YOU should be the one to make these decisions? Well, I'LL GET YOU FOR THAT!"

And they do. Oh, they do.

4
Missing the Narcissist
Index
Now you've done it. Forced to choose between your own sanity, your future and sense of self, and the arbitrary, absurdly selfish whims of a mentally ill manipulator, you've chosen the high road to peace and clear thinking. You've broken up with the Narcissist.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE!!!! CALL HIM!!! Beg his forgiveness! Yes, he'll wiggle with glee at your showering him with this attention and taunt you with ambivalence or outright haughty insults as punishment for your taking control of your own life, but hang in there! You might still be able to resume your place in his whacked psychoworld!

OK. I know. You miss him. We all know how that feels. But, now, let's take a peek at this 'missing' thing.

I assume we all agree that with Narcissists, we're generally dealing with two people: The guy he is, and the guy he pretended to be. You miss one of them. I take it we all know which one.

Pretend Guy is gone. Deceased. This hurts. This really hurts. It needs to be mourned. In addition to the loss of Pretend Guy, you've got mucho grande abuses heaped on you by Actual Guy. Topping off this pile of misery and trauma, Actual Guy and Pretend Guy inhabit the same body. Only another psycho wouldn't be thrown into a tailspin by the surreality of it all.

When he calls you after the breakup, he sounds just like Pretend Guy! 'You're alive!,' you think. 'You're not dead! Yes, YOU are my true love! You're finally back! Oh, WHEN can I see you?'

Whoa, there, Sister. Let me spare you a tiny bit of hurt here by having us skip ahead to where he slams you again and you wake up in the harsh, cold world of Reality. Things just got even worse. Pretend Guy is still gone, Actual Guy is still abusing you, Pretend Guy and Actual Guy are still the same guy, AND now any baby steps into healing you might have made just got deleted into nothingness.

And you wonder how he's feeling. Of course you do; not only are you sensitive and caring (Narcissists don't pick hardasses for partners), but you're conditioned to feel that way. The entire relationship was about him and his wants and needs. He literally trained you to think of little else. The real you, the pre-N you, doesn't want an abusive, mentally ill, inconsistent, selfish freak, ridiculous in his pandering for attention, chock full of contempt and inner conflicts that spill out and burn you. The real you wants a real partner.

"Hey," I hear one loyal heroine say. "Don't talk about him like that! He's NOT an abusive, selfish freak! He's.... Well, OK, he's an abusive, inconsistent, selfish, ridiculous, freak, but he's MY abusive, selfish freak!" Oh. Sorry. Hey, didn't I see you last week on Jerry Springer?

For the rest of us, we need to heed the experiences of my online friend L. L's man came on strong. Charming. Wonderful. They married, and he immediately became selfish, cold, and ambivalent about their marriage but refused to leave; he was unempathic, wildly defensive and manipulative. He was a Narcissist. L knew something was morbidly wrong, but she stayed; he'd grow distant, she'd work to make it better. How long did this go on before she read the writing on the wall?

Friend L stayed with her narcissist for three decades, until she 'selfishly' left him to preserve the remaining shards of sanity she had. I wonder if she has any regrets about leaving and wishes she could have him back, or if she has any general advice for the rest of us. Let's ask her, shall we?

Alex: Hey, L. Do you have any advice for the gals out here who are on the fence about their Narcissist partners?

L: G E T! O U T! I WENT THROUGH YEARS OF HELL. I SHOULD HAVE LEFT THIRTY YEARS AGO. I WANT MY THIRTY YEARS BACK!!!

Hmmm. Well, don't pay any attention to her. She should have stayed for 31 years; maybe THEN he would have changed. Besides, YOUR Narcissist is different! HE'LL get better! He will! I swear! Please, just take him back and get him away from the rest of us...

When we leave the Narcissist, it's because the abuse has gotten intolerable. Afterwards, when he calls us and pushes the buttons he knows extremely well, the temptation to give him another chance can be overwhelming. We're hurt; we're mad; we want to recoup some of our losses; we love him and want it to work; we just can't believe that anyone would be so warped as to hurt us that way, so we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All roads point to trying again with the N.

Except for one. Reality. Truth. Knowledge, and honesty with yourself. Your peace. Your health. This road points in the opposite direction away from the Narcissist. Yes, it's an uphill road, but if you can invest in the climb the view from the top is spectacular.

Does it seem like if you just invested enough love and time in the Narcissist, well, it just can't help but to get better?

Our L spent 30 years wanting her narcissist to get better. I wonder if he started to get a little better around year 10. Or year 17. Year 23? Year 29? Is L. content that she tried hard enough to make the relationship work? Let's ask L.

Alex: Hey, L, are you glad you spent 30 years in a 'relationship' with a narcissist?

L: AAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH....... AAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHH....

Sorry, folks. Apparently I said something wrong.

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_________________
Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer;
nothing is more difficult than to understand him.
Fyodor Dostoevsky