Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Legend · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Southeast USA

Sag,

Seeing you posting more frequently lately. How are you? It's Legend aka findyourpersonallegend from the MSN board.

Any luck regarding your youngest yet? You are in my thoughts.

Hugs,
Legend
_________________
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

"Realize your personal legend." Paulo Coelho

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

Legend

HI! Wish I could say better but no. Had a nervous breakdown and am seeking physiological help. Checking out the Ecker Center here in Illinois and will start therapy soon. It’s been NC for 9 months and am over my xN but missing my son is slowly killing me. So I need to get more specialized help thru group or with a therapies. Will keep you inform and thanks for asking. Sorry wish I had better news Sad

Sag

Legend · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Southeast USA

Sag,

Your news breaks my heart! I wish I had something to say that would make you feel better. Do know that you must stay strong for your youngest as well as your other children. I'm glad you are getting help. If I can help you in anyway, ie researching information, please let me know.

Hugs,
Legend
_________________
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

"Realize your personal legend." Paulo Coelho

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

Thanks Legend and yes you already help with the parent's test! Great information and thanks!!!
(((((Hugs))))))
I just need to take it one day at a time and I am feeling better after the decision to get into therapy. I know this is what the doctor ordered !

Sag

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341

Sag,

Ecker Center! I know it well! Did some auditing there and knew their last controller for a whole month before standing up as a bridesmaid for her wedding at the Villa Olivia. We almost immediately became the kind of best friends who know each other so well, we finish each other's sentences!

It was a couple of years ago--I was disqualified from future audits as a "conflict of interest" because her husband went to work with mine, but I remember being rather impressed with their programs and therapists--and they also have some good federal and state funding to provide financial assistance for their patients--many of their patients pay only a nominal fee.

I think it's a great place, and hopefully, you'll get a lot of benefit from it.

I did tell you about my friend's daughter in Wisconsin who tried taking her children away from their dad to Kentucky--until he figured out what she was up to and dragged them back to Wisconsin, filed for divorce and joint custody, and got it, didn't I? She may be my best friend, but my sympathies lie with her daughter's ex-husband, who I also just got a job working with my husband. He started in January and loves it! They work 8 days on, and then have the next 6 days off, leaving him lots of time to spend with his children. Wisconsin has become very father friendly, and it would be great to get together after tax season to discuss strategies!

Hugs!

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

disengaging

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341

Sag,

Wisconsin used to be one of the very worst states in the nation in terms of father's rights and assessing an outrageous sums in child support. As a result, they had one of the highest percentages of "dead beat" dads! However to alleviate this, just in the past few years, they've completely revamped their custody and support laws, and now are one of the most "father friendly" states in the country!

Joint custody is now mandatory--BOTH physicial as well as legal. Fathers who wish equal time now get it! My friend's ex SIL is entitled to have his children 175 days per year, and his ex is expected to work with him to ensure he gets it! The judge refuses to hear any arguments, and any conflicts, sends them both back into arbitration to work it out--and they BOTH have to pay equal amounts for this arbitration, around $200 per session, until they reach an agreement. As they BOTH must share this financial burden--and pay in advance, couples tend now to work out their differences and reach an agreement rather quickly.

As far their child support goes? They have 3 children and the court takes 15% of each parent's salary, combine the two, split it in half, and each parent receives half--and that's it. Anything else they have to work out between the 2 of them in arbitration. I should add that at least, this is what my best friend told me and she may not have all the information or have gotten all the facts straight, but her daughter is getting very little in the way of child support.

If she had been successful in establishing residency and filing for divorce in Kentucy, she'd have ended up with full custody and as much as 1/2 his net pay, as it is, she gets less than 10%. They have 3 children, and she's not happy. Oh well!

I'm not sure how your living in Illinois would effect all this, or how a preexisting custody arrangement would be effected either, but would make for an interesting project to research.

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

Thanks that's what I thought were that comment was heading and yes I knew about the joint custody issue in Wisconsin. And yes I agree would make a very interesting court battle concerning visitations and what would be in the best interests of the child. Not the father or mother but the needs both emotionally and financially of the child for long term support..

Thanks, Sag

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341

Hi again Sag,

What I meant by it would make an interesting project to research is that I would like to learn the statistics of how the changes in these custody laws and policies have impacted the lives of all involved. I have known far too many fathers who, after divorce, have felt they almost completely cut out of their children's lives, and have expressed their helplessness and resentment at feeling they had been diminished from being a father, to nothing more than a "walking ATM machine". I've never been able to see where this benefits either parent, and especially, not the children. I don't know that this is the solution, but then, I don't know of any other solution either that would result in a "win/win" situation for all involved.

Especially when my husband's children were still young, I watched his despair at not being able to come home every night to his children, even though he's always had unrestricted visitation which he's been able to exercise to a far greater degree than most men I've known. I had to complete my degree at 5 different colleges because when his exN moved--we moved as well, because he simply couldn't bear to be far from his children for long. This made no difference to me because I can be happy living anywhere, but as you have other children to consider, uprooting them at her whim would neither be fair to them, or in their best interests.

I can't think of any normal parent who would ever voluntarily agree to pay for the privilege of having someone else take away their child, to raise them without hardly ever even seeing that child, much less be any part of their life and upbringing!

If it appears your ex has completely written off her other 2 children seemingly without a second's thought, well, that's because she's an N and has something very wrong with her! But as a normal, loving parent, your frustration is totally justified and I think having a "nervous breakdown" is a rather normal reaction to a completely irrational, horrific situation.

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

disengaging

Thank you so much for the support and information concerning my current (emotionally) situation. Also because of my emotionally and mentally state feel that a custody batlle at this time would not be in the best interest of those that would be involved! It's been very hard for me to accept and understand that I lived with a person for 17 years that couldn't or wouldn't love us. And disengaging that this same person left not just our 2 children (that live with me) took my other son and then lied about were that son would be liiving, but also left two other children "because she lost custody of them and had supervised visitation and didn't see them for years and years. That I believe in my heart that she would never do anything like that again! Yes, I know I am a fool, but that's what I believed...

I had other's tell me how they (man or women) worked with their ex's concerning that children and wish so much that I had that! But still good to know that adults (parents) see the importants of keeping the other parent in the picture with concerns and issues for their children. Good for you all! You all did the right thing, and I believe the only thing! God bless you all for that!

Sag

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341

Sag,

Oh, my husband's ex is an N too, and her motivation wasn't altruistic, or out of her concern for the children, but just in her own best interests. Aside from having someone to dump the kids on for a few months when she felt like running off with her lastest BF, she also wanted us all to "be friends" so she could continue to consider my husband as an "option".

We chose our battles wisely, giving in on most things, and only taking a hard stance when we felt absolutely necessary. We didn't give her much of a problem, no matter what she did, because my husband and I didn't want to risk her retaliation in the form of trying to "alienate" him from his children.

ON the very rare occassions my husband did, there was no argument, no discussion--he TOLD her! He's not normally a violent man, but when he was drinking, he got in a few bar room "altercations", took a few guys apart, broke some bones, and don't think she wanted to find out either what would happen if he felt he'd been "pushed over the edge".

Doesn't sound like your ex contains even this much rationality or consideration for others, much less her own children! Even where they're concerned, sounds like she feels it's either "her way, or the highway!" How very sad for your children to feel their own mother could discard them so casually!

sag07 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 537 Location: Elgin, IL

disengaging

Yes I remember some of the post concerning your Husband’s ex N. Like jumping in his car and telling him that “we are getting back together again”, I think that one was your? Or her getting into his truck! And then him leaving and returning later for his truck. His exN looking for anything “wrong” with your marries to him and then wanting to use that to get him back! And then how you said that she would dump her children off to anyone so that she could have “her fun”. Well, I believe she (my xN) would too if not for me to stop that! I know for a fact that her sister Donna did that! How do I know, because she (sister) dump her children off at my and xN home for her (xN) to watch for a few days so that the sister could find a place for her and her children (homeless). Well, days turn into weeks then into months! With her (sister’s) children asking us “do my mom call today”, How in hell do you answer that question to her children. “No, baby she didn’t” Man, her whole family are dysfunctional! Which explains why neither My children, family or I had any type of relationship with these losers. If they couldn’t use you for something, you were useless to them! My children never had a relationship with her father, mother, brother or sisters and as far as that goes her (xN) as well! These (her family) is nothing but a bunch of Users, abusers and Losers! In 17 years my sister met only her mother once! Isn’t that unbelievable! In 17 years she never made any attempt for her family to meet my family! Why didn’t my family try to meet them? Well, maybe because of all the horror stories I heard from my xN about her (yes, she bad mouths even her own family) family. Me and my sister are very close and I tell her everything and then her told her husband! In short her own family has personality disorders! I did try a few times to have any type of relationship with her parent but again (not allowing them to use me) never happen!

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1341