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Why N's lie

The wisdom of the people who walk the path from abuse to recovery. This section is dedicated to our members present and past. This is the way it really is.

Moderators: louxloux, Admin@P&NS

Postby Cassi on Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:42 pm

Hi again Loux

We have a new forum in the links and resources section called

http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/the ... e-f54.html

The Way It Is - Our Member's Advice
Who can tell it better than someone who has walked the path from abuse to recovery. This section is dedicated to our members present and past. This is the way it really is.


and would like to ask the other managers if we could post this thread in there as there is lots of fantastic posts on here.

x
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Postby qsuss on Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:01 pm

For those of us who are honest it is hard to fathom how easily N's can lie. I've been in this game for 17 years and my N went from not teling the whole truth to actually lying outright. Just this morning I checked his cell and found numerous text messages from some Carol. He recently D&D'd the OW and I knew he must have another lined up. When I asked him about this new one he looked shocked and said"What are you talking about"? I just laughed and told him nevermind. He will be all messed up today because he was confronted.
An N's self is a lie, how could they ever be honest with themselves let alone anyone else?
Thoughts on God~ God gave me good health, beautiful, loving children, awesome grandchildren. He gave me the free will to choose how I would live my life, the choices I've made are mine. It has been my choice to stay with a man I know to be disordered until I feel the time is right for me to leave. Do I deserve to have been lied to, slandered, cheated on? No, and I'm sure God doesn't think so either. I accepted a long time ago that N is damaged and do not take his crap personally. It is necessary to believe in yourself, to know who you really are for the pain to cease. Your pain is caused by doubting yourself and your worth, relationships with an N rob you of the most important thing you can own, belief in yourself. It would be my advice to start the work of detaching before D&D begins, if possible. I have spent the last few years studying the behavior without being devastated by it. He still pisses me off, always will but his cheating, lying does not harm me anymore. He was never good enough for me, but I didn't believe it though everyone said it, until I began the work of detaching. A duck will always be a duck and the same goes for a liar.
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Postby guest1 on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:08 am

newlife08 wrote:And God allowed it...........this is the hard one for me....

I do not deserve this

my kids do not deserve this

It is emotionally cruelty at its worst

None of us here deserves this

And yet my God allows it....


I hope He also allows me to see His justice for the two of them!!!!


Well, I am not religious, but if I did believe in god, I would say that he gave us free will to make our own choices. God did not tell us to meet N, he did not direct our steps. It simply happened because of our own missteps. We need to learn to take responsibility for our own choices in life, I think.
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Postby louxloux on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:17 am

Cassi wrote:Hi again Loux

We have a new forum in the links and resources section called

http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/the ... e-f54.html

The Way It Is - Our Member's Advice
Who can tell it better than someone who has walked the path from abuse to recovery. This section is dedicated to our members present and past. This is the way it really is.


and would like to ask the other managers if we could post this thread in there as there is lots of fantastic posts on here.

x


Hi Cassi,

Feel free to post anything I write or start that you or any of the other managers feel would be helpful. In fact, I would be honored. I've always said and still feel very much that the reciprocity of this forum is what helped me through the insanity.

loux
Beautiful light is born of darkness, so the faith that springs from conflict is the strongest and the best. Light is the symbol of truth. Give light, & the darkness will disappear of itself.

~ This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine...
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Postby louxloux on Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:47 am

moonlightkisu wrote:
newlife08 wrote:And God allowed it...........this is the hard one for me....

I do not deserve this

my kids do not deserve this

It is emotionally cruelty at its worst

None of us here deserves this

And yet my God allows it....


I hope He also allows me to see His justice for the two of them!!!!


Well, I am not religious, but if I did believe in god, I would say that he gave us free will to make our own choices. God did not tell us to meet N, he did not direct our steps. It simply happened because of our own missteps. We need to learn to take responsibility for our own choices in life, I think.


In my case, i firmly feel that this situation was brought to me (by God, the universe, etc...) because I had past issues that needed to be dealt with (finally) in order to grow and learn what is and is not healthy, and to learn that things beyond my own control are not my fault. I've found, that I've been picking potential mates that were emotionally unavailable (in various ways) and that put me back in that 'prove yourself worthy of love' mode that was established during my childhood. The way I reacted to the ending of this r/s - the anxiety to the abandonment, the practically doing back flips to convince someone else I was worth love, that I was smart, competent, etc... felt so eerily familiar, but I could not quite put my finger on why or how it felt so familiar. Counseling helped tremendously in that regard. My parent divorced when I was 5. My Dad pretty much had nothing to do with us (my brother and I). He had visitation every other weekend, but he would bring us to his parents and drop us off for the visit then go on his own merry way - so any attention he gave us was like gold, and I wanted him to love me like a real Dad loved their children... I wanted him to want me. Somehow, during adolescence, my brother went from one long term r/s to another (4+ years with 3 girlfriends at different times) til he found his wife - they have been together now for nearly 20 years. Me on the other hand... I seemed to not only find, but want those who were emotionally unavailable - just like Dad. I had to resolve that. Up til now, I had not. This situation actually became a catalyst for dealing with all of those old past hurts, laying them to rest and learning what is healthy vs. unhealthy in other people (as well as for me and my behavior including partner seeking behavior). If a guy was nice, he was boring... those 'bad boys' were so damn exciting, fun and interesting... but you can't count on them through thick and thin. I've found where MY errors are, and I am finally learning to correct them.

This is the first time in my life where I've been ok with the reality of now... the 'as is'... rather than focusing (and being SO stuck) on the "why's" - 'why did this happen or not happen?', 'or why didn't my dad love or want to be around me like other dads do their children?', or 'why was Mark such a psycho N emotionally flaky freak?'. 'Why' doesn't matter. Even if I had the answer to 'why', it does not change HOW THINGS ARE right here, right now. Chasing 'why' is a total waste of time, effort, energy and emotion. Accepting the reality of now doesn't mean you condone other's behavior, but basically just means "what they do is beyond my control and regardless of 'why' they do what they do, I've done my best, I didn't deserve that, I do deserve better and I am 'ok'".

(hope i made sense)

Without a professional counselor, I am not 100% sure I would have recognized my pattern, or that there was even a pattern of 'type' that I continued to chose over and over. It is very true that we are attracted to what is familiar... or at least I found it to be very true for me.


loux
Beautiful light is born of darkness, so the faith that springs from conflict is the strongest and the best. Light is the symbol of truth. Give light, & the darkness will disappear of itself.

~ This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine...
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n lies

Postby elpear on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:32 am

Here's the weirdest thing...my friend, ex-lover, would lie constantly and I didn't care because I wasn't wanting to be exclusive anyway. When I just laugh at his lies and made jokes about what a sex-addicted, loser he is he really can't stand it! It's so funny. I cried about him a lot but then I got the courage to move out of state and make some real friends. Now he's offended because I see him for what he is and I'm not even mad about it. He really hates that. I love myself for seeing through him and protecting myself before it was too late.
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The Narcissist as Liar and Con-man

Postby samvaknin on Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:07 pm

In "Streetcar Named Desire", Blanche, the sister in law of Marlon Brando, is accused by him of inventing a false biography, replete with exciting events and desperate wealthy suitors. She responds that it is preferable to lead an imaginary but enchanted life - then a real but dreary one.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal23.html

This is where the narcissist differs from others (from "normal" people).

His very self is a piece of fiction concocted to fend off hurt and to nurture the narcissist's grandiosity. He fails in his "reality test" - the ability to distinguish the actual from the imagined. The narcissist fervently believes in his own infallibility, brilliance, omnipotence, heroism, and perfection. He doesn't dare confront the truth and admit it even to himself.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal75.html

I lie to your face, without a twitch or a twitter, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. In fact, my lies are not lies at all. They are the truth, my truth. And you believe them, because you do, because they do not sound or feel like lies, because to do otherwise would make you question your own sanity, which you have a tendency to do anyway, because from the very beginning of our relationship you placed your trust and hopes in me, derived your energy, direction, stability, and confidence from me and from your association with me. So what's the problem if the safe haven I provide comes with a price? Surely I am worth it and then some.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/kenintro.html

Question:

How can I expose the lies of the narcissist in a court of law? He acts so convincing!

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq78.html

The dissolution of the abuser's marriage or other meaningful (romantic, business, or other) relationships constitutes a major life crisis and a scathing narcissistic injury. To soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-truths and outlandish interpretations of events around him.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse14.html

But these lies - both outright and borderline - are known to me as such. I can tell the difference between reality and fantasy. I choose fantasy knowingly and consciously - but it doesn't render me oblivious to my true condition.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistreal.html

The narcissist claims to be infallible, superior, talented, skilful, omnipotent, and omniscient. He often lies and confabulates to support these unfounded claims. Within his cult, he expects awe, admiration, adulation, and constant attention commensurate with his outlandish stories and assertions. He reinterprets reality to fit his fantasies.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal79.html

The narcissist often pretends to know everything, in every field of human knowledge and endeavour. He lies and prevaricates to avoid the exposure of his ignorance. He resorts to numerous subterfuges to support his God-like omniscience.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq3.html

The abuser's biography sounds unusually rich and complex. His achievements – incommensurate with his age, education, or renown. Yet, his actual condition is evidently and demonstrably incompatible with his claims. Very often, the abuser's lies or fantasies are easily discernible. He always name-drops and appropriates other people's experiences and accomplishments as his own.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse8.html

Yet, deep inside, the narcissist is aware that his life is an artifact, a confabulated sham, a vulnerable cocoon. The world inexorably and repeatedly intrudes upon these ramshackle battlements, reminding the narcissist of the fantastic and feeble nature of his grandiosity. This is the much-dreaded Grandiosity Gap.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal74.html

The False Self is nothing but a concoction, a figment of the narcissist's disorder, a reflection in the narcissist's hall of mirrors. It is incapable of feeling, or experiencing. Yet, it is fully the master of the psychodynamic processes which rage within the narcissist's psyche.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq39.html

One of the most important symptoms of pathological narcissism (the Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is grandiosity. Grandiose fantasies (megalomaniac delusions of grandeur) permeate every aspect of the narcissist's personality. They are the reason that the narcissist feels entitled to special treatment which is typically incommensurate with his real accomplishments. The Grandiosity Gap is the abyss between the narcissist's self-image (as reified by his False Self) and reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal91.html

The narcissist then resorts to self-delusion. Unable to completely ignore contrarian opinion and data - he transmutes them. Unable to face the dismal failure that he is, the narcissist partially withdraws from reality. To soothe and salve the pain of disillusionment, he administers to his aching soul a mixture of lies, distortions, half-truths and outlandish interpretations of events around him.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal42.html

A Grandiosity Bubble is an imagined, self-aggrandising, narrative involving the narcissist and elements from his real life – people around him, places he frequents, or conversations he is having. The narcissist weaves a story incorporating these facts, inflating them in the process and endowing them with bogus internal meaning and consistency. In other words: he confabulates – but, this time, his confabulation is loosely based on reality.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/grandiositybubbles.html

Question:

Why does the narcissist conjure up another Self? Why not simply transform his True Self into a False one?

Answer:

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq48.html

The irony is that narcissists, who consider themselves worldly, discerning, knowledgeable, shrewd, erudite, and astute - are actually more gullible than the average person. This is because they are fake. Their self is false, their life a confabulation, their reality test gone. They live in a fantasy land all their own in which they are the center of the universe, admired, feared, held in awe, and respected for their omnipotence and omniscience.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal68.html

The disparity between the accomplishments of the narcissist and his grandiose fantasies and inflated self-image - the Grandiosity Gap - is staggering and, in the long run, insupportable. It imposes onerous exigencies on the narcissist's grasp of reality and social skills. It pushes him either to seclusion or to a frenzy of "acquisitions" - cars, women, wealth, power.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/grandiositygap.html

The narcissist rarely admits to a weakness, ignorance, or deficiency. He filters out information to the contrary - a cognitive impairment with serious consequences. Narcissists are likely to unflinchingly make inflated and inane claims about their sexual prowess, wealth, connections, history, or achievements.

All this is mighty embarrassing to the narcissist's nearest, dearest, colleagues, friends, neighbours, even on-lookers. The narcissist's tales are so patently absurd that he often catches people off-guard. Unbeknownst to him, the narcissist is derided and mockingly imitated. He fast makes a nuisance and an imposition of himself in every company.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal59.html

The "modesty" displayed by narcissists is false. It is mostly and merely verbal. It is couched in flourishing phrases, emphasised to absurdity, repeated unnecessarily – usually to the point of causing gross inconvenience to the listener. The real aim of such behaviour and its subtext are exactly the opposite of common modesty.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq36.html

Question:

Why is there no connection between the behaviour of the narcissist and his emotions?

Answer:

A better way of putting it would be that there is a weak correlation between the narcissist's behaviour and his professed or proclaimed emotions. The reason is that his emotions are merely professed or proclaimed – but not felt.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq41.html

Narcissists, like children, have magical thinking. They feel omnipotent. They feel that there is nothing they couldn't do or achieve had they only really wanted to and applied themselves to it.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq45.html

The signs are here, the gestures, the infinitesimal movements that you cannot control. I lurk. I know that definite look, that imperceptible twitch, the inevitability of your surrender.

Continue to read this short story here (click on this link):

http://gorgelink.org/vaknin/conman-en.html
Encyclopedia of Narcissism and Psychopathy:

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/siteindex.html

Buy 9 books about narcissists, psychopaths, and abusive relationships - click on this link:

http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/thebook.html
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Lying

Postby Hank on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:24 am

This is a huge subject which I often wonder about. It is hard to answer because of variances in people. In my situation my ex wife was promiscuous, but had a cover of pious religion. When I uncovered it, she reacted with power to keep a lid on it; contacted my friends and relatives to coverup the fact and brainwashed the kids.

I think she knows it is wrong. She knows she can't help herself. She knows she is wrong. Therefore, she lies to cover up her illness.

Fascinating subject.
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