Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

TruthSeeker2

Hello, Everyone, Thayilflies and baby kay/Kim, Wink

Thanks, Kim, for your last posting and am glad you shared it and others I've written, no doubt, with your husband. If it's been helpful, that's what I'm here for, what we're all here for. I can understand your fear of NM hounding you wherever you go which is part of the reason I suggested putting her out of business for good. However, if you believe God's timing and justice plus distance can do the job, fine. Are you sure she wouldn't try to get to you through your son who's staying behind to go to college? I'd watch out for that, if I were you. Here's something I forgot to say in the posting this afternoon. Just for argument's sake suppose part of her design to break up your marriage is to get at your children and bring them over to the dark side. I also watch out for that. If your older children aren't N's, they really should break from NM ASAP, too. Your younger ones will be with you, correct? You have that one son you went through so much with who NM tried to bring over, but he got away by the skin of his teeth. He would do well, if he has any weakness at all, to avoid her like the plague. If he's the one going to college near her, keep him in your prayers and on your radar.

Thayilflies, may I ask a question of you?

Why are you taking part in this forum? You sound too many discordant notes in my discerning ear that something just isn't quite right about you. You sound more like a crafty N yourself than a survivor of one. You sound too much like my own NM, who considers herself a great thinker and can philosophize until she's blue in the face or we who have to listen to her are. All she's trying to do is confuse the issue so she can worm her way out of having to admit who and what she is. So, she distances the issue from herself by trying to distance us from it by coldly saying stuff like you just did. Do you have an NP for real? If you did, I don't see how you could say some of the things you've been saying. I don't know your story, so I will suspend judgment. If you've posted your story somewhere on this forum, where is it? Maybe I just haven't read enough of your postings in other topics, as I'm still learning how to use this site. The things you write just sound so off-the-wall, sometimes. Confused

Let me tell you that those of us who are sufferers are being very real about our painful stories and our efforts to recover, gain insight and strength from each other, get a breath of fresh air and enjoy our lives. We don't focus on the bleak nor do we want to. We're hungry for the good things in life. By being on this blog, we're trying to once and for all expunge that dark stain from our lives. We aren't misery addicts who wallow in it for sympathy. We're dealing with it so that we can get free of it. That's all we want to do - have happy, normal lives free of this evil. Why do you think people like baby kay/Kim are hightailin' it out of town? Why are so many of us on NC? We aren't masochists who love to commiserate in our suffering or be around the cause of our suffering. We wish it were far from us, that this lifelong sentence were lifted already. To say otherwise is really an insult to us. Mad

Thayilflies, there are NOT two sides to this story of N's. Mad

NPD is an aberrant mental condition well-documented in the field of psychiatry, and it is widely known these people are incurable monsters no medicine or therapy can heal. There are absolutes, like it or not, the Lord God being the greatest absolute, like it or not, so I'll stick with Him. Narcissists, especially ones so malignant as baby kay's or even mine are evil, and those of us who have the misfortune to be the child of one know it only too well firsthand. How you could even suggest that the N's have any say in what's right, that they have "their side of the story"? That's what N's do, they use words to turn people's heads around to their warped thinking. To us survivors, N's have no rights, anymore. The devastation they've wrought is witness enough against them. You sound as if you're advocating having sympathy for the devil. Twisted Evil

I think Mick Jagger wrote a song years ago with that title...and it would make sense for him as one of the devil biggest followers to give his boss some good PR. Who are you working for, Thayilflies, because it sure doesn't seem like you're working with us. Is it just me who feels this way or are there others out there with whom this just doesn't sit right? Question

Okay, now on to the next installment of my NM story - and I tell it for one purpose only. It's not to revel in my misery and get others to say, oh, the poor dear. It's to show how I'm coping and to encourage others on in this fight. That's to say that events are moving quickly in my life to move the situation to an eventual resolution. Last night while I was writing in response to you, baby kay, my husband gets out of bed to say he wants to talk with me because this idea Idea

just came into his head. He says he knows it wasn't his idea but a flash of wisdom from He who has all wisdom, the Lord. Basically, he said if we want to get her legally proven incompetent so we can get POA control over her affairs and money, we should allow NM to fire all the aides we gotten privately for her whom she's been terrorizing and who are on the verge of quitting, anyway, give NM the list of agencies to call on her own which will cost her a lot more and let's see if she's as capable as she says she is to handle her own business. This woman can't walk, craps in her bed now and in the bathroom floor, screams and curses, tells the aides to leave only to call them back to help her to the bathroom or eat, or some other thing. She's too tired to do her bookkeeping. She hates everybody. She's been told time and time again that if APS catches her without an aide at any time and she's on the floor, in her own waste or whatever since she was told she needs them 24/7, the social worker, the crisis center team and the cops will haul her off to the hospital for an evaluation and have her put into a place. So, my husband says to let it slide, let her go and do whatever she's going to do, because it's all going to come down on her head in no time flat, anyway, since we all know she's incompetent. The chances are NM will never call anyone on that list of agencies. And if she does, NM will never get aides like the ones she has had who will care for her the way these people did for the price she's paying them. The two main aides who have been there are sisters in the Lord who care for old people as they would care for their own parents. They even iron NM's underwear. The lady who's worked for NM for ten years says she's leaving as of tomorrow. Her blood pressure, a problem in her family that killed her brother, is being aggravated by the abuse and she can't afford to get sick or die because of NM. She's been passing up other better jobs because of NM and won't do that, anymore. NM's getting a bad rap in the home care community, so eventually, no one will want to work for her. This lady sounded so sad, and this is not at all her way. Last night, Jerry left a message with the social worker at APS that this is his plan. When he spoke with this aide (and this aide has gotten her friends in the business to work for NM, coordinating everything) earlier today, he told her to call this APS social worker and tell her EVERYTHING that has happened and what she has been subjected to. The APS listens to the aides' stories, which is the best evidence against NM. So that's what she did. My husband told me to call the crisis center and tell them what's going on. I did. The upshot is the social worker said the aide can't work under these conditions and they will be going to NM's house to speak with this aide personally and see NM. NM is very crafty, but when she hears what's going on between this aide and the social worker, we hope she loses it and goes ballistic so they can take her away. I don't know if the crisis team is coordinating the visit with the social worker or not, as had been spoken of doing when I called, but the crisis team will try another visit at some point to see if they can now get enough on NM to take her away for the psych eval. We'll see what happens. Question

So, you can see that even though I'm on NC, NM still very much effects my life, and I very much want it to end. Rolling Eyes

Seachelle · Moderator Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 102

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baby_kay · member Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 237

The "truth" shall set you free!!!!!!!!!!

Thats what I gotta say, and "WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND"
In regards to the fight between good and evil, the bigger picture is not to become what you hate.

It takes many many years and tries, to get all of this right. And god bless all for their attempts to have a loving, and properous journey.

It takes a lifetime to "unlove" your parent. And I am sure we can do this, but it takes alot less to "get on with the business of living our lives".

We are in this mess together, and if we can come here and share and vent, and help each other, thats what I am doing here. Plain and simple. And I'll point my finger at the evil that exists, to know not to mistake it as anything other than it is, evil. Someone who plots a lifetime of hurt and terror on someone else, is alot more than sick. They are diseaced on in the most horrable way. They have hearts of stone, that are cold, and their grips prove it. The damage and upturning of another life, to get some sort of much needed satisfaction can be called a whole host of things, for all purposes. So I'll refer to it simply as WRONG!!!!

Just my two cents, take it or leave it really, just one Nchild's opinion.
Nothing to lose sleep over, or rampage on. We all come here for our experiences and to learn, and I know that my jouney will always be a learning experience, and if I can help or share or shed some light on something, or someone can do it for me. HEY!!!!!
Peace

TruthSeeker2

Thanks, lovely Seachelle and baby kay/Kim, for your latest postings Wink

,

Although I may not agree with a lot of what Thayilflies says, she and others certainly have a right to say it on this forum/blog. I said what I had to say on the matter of the nature of evil and other matters to just put it out there and have the readers take what they want or don't want from it. Every person is different and is at a different stage in their NP journey. I agree that this forum should be a safe place to learn, grow, help others, get healing for ourselves, share our experience, etc. without fear of reprisal from another forum member(s). And, indeed, we sure are all in this mess together. It's good to know we're not alone. Smile

Seachelle, I don't know how you did it - take your NP's into your home. From what you write, I take it they're still alive, still living with you and still causing you to suffer, correct? The compassion you explained about and showed towards them even though you were aware of its consequences for you astounds me. I will say up front that I couldn't and wouldn't do it and venture to say I'm not alone in feeling and saying that, either. May God reward you amply for your tremendous self-sacrifice. If it was the right thing for you to do, fine, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

Baby kay/Kim, I do agree with most everything you said in your posting of today. What goes around does indeed come back around (sowing and reaping), it does take many years to "get" this journey and do it right. It's a gradual process. It also does take a lifetime to learn to "unlove" the idea of parenthood or a parent even if one never had a good relationship with the parent. It is, after all, not the natural order of things. I can't say I ever loved my parents the way normal people do, because my situation was never normal. I never had the chance to really know what it must be like or should be like to be able to freely love a parent. I was always on guard, and I was always kept on the outside of the relationship between NM and my father. As I've said before, I never loved them, just the idea of what a parent should be, as we all most likely have. We loved what we missed, never had but knew we should have had. To me, that's what dies a hard death. I am glad you are able to understand that NPD is more than a simple sickness, to stand up and call a spade a spade and shine the light on evil for what it is - evil. One can't sanitize evil by labeling it a sickness, as is so common today in society.

Here's the latest on the continuing NM saga. My husband called me from work today to tell me the social worker showed up for the visit with NM and the primary aide. NM said to the social worker that she doesn't want to pay the aides. The social worker at this point is not treating this like a psych case even though we know it is. Must be that during the last visit when NM kind of cooperated, she threw them off the scent about her mental condition even though we have emphasized again and again the NPD and that she's been nutso all her life and is getting worse now. They're treating it like a dementia case and say she really belongs in a nursing home. No psych eval. But that's ok because at this point it's obvious she is losing her mind to dementia, too, and has lost the memory of great parts of her life. But since she still has the choice to not pay the aides and do whatever on her own and stay in the house, they will let her go and stay there for the time being without aides just as my husband told them to! If NM wants to kill herself and die in the house alone, she will. What will happen is she will weaken, starve and die there if she doesn't call agencies and get her own help or call Lifeline, which she's afraid to do now because she knows if she does that, they will take her away for sure. The social worker will try to get her into a nursing home, but the waiting list is so long it might not ever get to happen before NM dies, which is what I really would like to see happen. There are aides who will be coming until Friday after the primary one I told you about leaves today. After that, it's let the chips fall where they may. This primary aide who has known my NM for all these years and is leaving today without getting paid said to the social worker that NM needs the doctor to come, so the social worker left the doctor a message. It's very hard to get a hold of this doctor, who has been to the house only twice. The aide also said to my NM that had NM treated me well and been a proper mother to me all these years, the situation wouldn't be what it presently is and I would have been there for her even now. She said NM was silent about that. She also told NM that NM has a demon, which I already know and have known for years is the case. Possessed, yes, pure and simple. It can't get any more evil than that. twisted: Demonic possession is a three stage process, and the host has to somehow allow that demon in. If a demon has permission and jurisdiction to enter a person, he will. Somehow, NM gave herself over to this evil. It begins with oppression, becomes obsession and when that obsession is so overpowering, the demon will enter and possess a person. As a Christian, I understand how it works, but I will have to admit I'm not a big enough Christian to be able to cast it out. When NM doesn't pay the last two aides the primary one got for her and they leave, she's on her own after that, because we have a live and will not pay the consequences for what she's doing to herself and let her trap us. We will be speaking with this primary aide when we call her later and I will get to hear from her own mouth what went on. You can't imagine what it meant to me, what a tremendous thing it was that this aide did when she spoke up to NM and said what she said. I am vindicated here and everyone who's dealt with NM now knows the unvarnished truth. Smile

NM has nowhere else to turn, so we'll see what God does next in the situation. Rolling Eyes

Hopefully, my total freedom is at hand. Exclamation

I'll be able to report more on this later.

baby_kay · member Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 237

WOW, truthseeker,
Its been an intense couple of days for you and husband. Sounds like a good plan to let the chips fall where they may at this point. How will the POA work, and are you the executor of her affairs, after she passes? Your the only child I remember you saying. My prayers and support, for the games this tyrant still can muster up, but it does sound an aweful lot like she is going crazy. To not pay aids, for taking care of her, she is one miserable human alright. And I am glad for the primary aide making that comment to NM on your behalf, its nice to know that others can and so see it. And have the truth on their side also. Its amazing how slow things can go with the social worker and all. She will hate a nursing home even more than the other. I remember when my husbands grandma Grama Anna was in a nursing home, she was so sane, she was unable to care for herself alone anymore. It took maybe 8 months and she was gone. At first she was the star of the hall. She was a peach of a woman, and you could not help but just love her. She was so sweet, and loved everyone. They all visited her room, and she was the best woman. I miss her, and husbands mother. Erma was what motherhood embodies. I am so blessed that I had her in my life. His parents have been gone for like 7 years now, and my biological dad has been gone 8. But...........NM still kicking. My dad was 56 when he passed suddenly of a heartattack. I havent filled you in on that saga, and NM revenge for me finding and loving my dad. She took him away when I was 6 and sister was 4. Can you imagine never seeing your dad again till you 19 and have to find him. Another chapter I can share with you sometime. I have to go and help husband, we are landscaping new neighbors yard, its money and we need to eat right now. Peace
Love and take care and write when you can
Laughing

Seachelle · Moderator Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 102

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baby_kay · member Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 237

Seashelle,
I do remember reading your story, and your a very good person, and you did what you could. You did what so many people in your situation would not. And I know that you finally wanted and needed some one on one with NM to see if in a time of need, she could be different. My heart just aches for your hurt and disappointment. And I know that nothing anyone could say could make you feel any different right now, except lost. Time heals. You did what you could do. Karma, for her. She made a lonely existance and she is now just that. Its hard to help someone who doesn't want it, or appreciate it. I am in a situation or transition in life where no one will help me, and I have had to go thru days of feeling angry, and such, but then I pray, and know that maybe no one is suppose to help right now, and maybe dear jesus will bring me through this hard time alone. Either way, all we have at the end of the day is our faith. Have faith that you are a very decent person. I would love to have someone with your heart in my life..............and I would be ever so grateful to call you friend. May many good and wonderful things come your way. Bless your efforts, you did do the right thing for you, and god bless ya for it.
Peace
Kim

TruthSeeker2

Hi, baby kay/Kim, Wink

You're certainly right about it being an intense time for us. Yes, NM is crazy, just all the more crazy now. Yes, it's wonderfully gratifying to be vindicated by the truth and actually have someone else stick their neck out on your behalf. I suppose because the primary aide is leaving today, she was able to get in a good parting shot. No, I'm not executor of the will, and that's a problem. You realize, of course, that these N's are control freaks. Mine would never willingly give me POA or make me executor. They do things for spite. There is a first lawyer from many years ago named Steve Davis, not Sydelle with whom I spoke with recently, who is executor of the will NM drew up long ago.. He made himself that when the will was made up. I have his phone number and hope he's still alive. Sydelle said that first lawyer can't find the will, which may have gotten lost. If it did, good, because then he can't be executor of something that no longer exists. Anyway, I do believe the newer will supersedes the old one. Hopefully, the will Sydelle has will be the one to be used. I think Steve Davis made himself executor so he could get a share of the estate as his pay. I have a feeling he's the kind of guy who, unlike Sydelle who intervened for me by holding it back, would not only have drawn up a new will to disinherit me but would have made sure NM signed it.

About nursing homes, yes, I know the track record in these places. Sad

It's usually the last stop an old person makes when he/she ends up there. I know she won't like it if she lives long enough to get into one. She will not get the care and companionship there she got with primary aide and her friends. She could have lived like a pampered and happy queen in her house with those aides. Perhaps should she end up in a nursing home, she will realize it too late and hopefully die shortly thereafter if she doesn't die first at some point after the remaining aides leave. I can see it now if she calls agencies to negotiate a contract with them on her own that she will not want to pay them, either, since they do cost a lot more. I can see it happening if she does get a contract that she won't pay the aides when they come that they will leave and the agency will come after her for it and not send anyone else after that. I can see NM flushing herself down life's toilet while we watch from a safe distance and let her because she's used everyone and every opportunity up. Yes, I can see her dead and begin my life in earnest once I've inherited her estate. So, let her die and decrease the surplus population of these monsters. It's out of our hands now and no one can say we didn't try our best to do the best for her in the sight of God.

Kim, your NM is only 61 years old, same age I am, remember? That's not old nowadays, and I sure don't feel and look old. You're only 42, so I'm old enough to have been your mother, too, if I'd had a child at such a young age. Hate to say this, kiddo, but unless the Lord intervenes on your behalf to free you totally of her, you could be in for having her around for another twenty to thirty years depending on how long she lives. Rolling Eyes

How is her health at this point, and does she take care of her health? Question

Of course, I'd love to hear more of your saga anytime you're willing and able to tell it. Glad you had someone like your Grams Anna and that your mother-in-law is the epitome of what motherhood should be. Mine is like that, too, thank God. Laughing

And of course, I'll keep in touch on this forum when I have free time to write. It has become an important part of my life and part of what I would call therapy. Laughing

Seachelle · Moderator Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 102

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baby_kay · member Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 237

Seachelle,
Your so very welcome!!!!! Many many high fives for you!!!

Truthseeker,
Your dilema will be on my mind, and your prayers in my heart. No matter which way NM plays it, she looses. You give her too much credit, it really really sounds like she is certifiable at this point. I mean, think about it, if she pisses on everyone, the only ones, who take care of her, and for all purposes are being paid to give a shit, and she pisses them off, shes not a very smart old woman, a pain in ass most certainly but not smart. My MN is a cunning as they come, but not a very bright lightbulb if you catch my drift. I mean the way they think is so very off base anyways, and all the mean crap they hurl at everyone, if they are not the center of the universe. If they are miserable, we should all be. Thats what I believe they think. Like you mom, she probably thinks to herself, I will make sure she is miserable. She does not deserve to be happy and I'll live each day to make sure she is not. There was one thing in Thalily's post that has been swimming in my brain, and echoing in my thoughts. She said something like, Look at the world angry and you get an angry world. I don't want to make that my thoughts. I don't want that to consume who I am anymore, with regards to my NM. She is her, and I am me, and if she just wanted to get on the lawn and have an old fashion "Smack down", I would love to solve our problems like that. Once and for all. Just done, cuz I would kick the ever livin crap out of her, trust me, I would be the victor. My mom's in reasonalbly good health, although when I was in her presence, she would hold her chest, and complain about breathing, but then her friend, Mary Nell would run over, and say "Susan are OK, just sit down and breath", and I would just laugh to myself, because my mom, could win the "ACADEMY AWARD" for actress in a drama series. HAHA, that was a good one. She is sooooooo fake, it makes me laugh actually, nothing real or geniune about this wack. So, she has like a Hobby farm, she has a couple of horses, and some chickens, SHe gets some turkeys. Her horses don't like her either. She has two little girl Shih tzu's, that I could just scoop up and bring home they are soooo precisous. I have a tiny shih tzu myself, she is only 4 pounds, and her name is Leena, or Momma's baby, or kitten. which ever fits the day. She rides, and has a quit big property to take care of, she has an internet business, where she makes underquilts and bedding from lamb's wool. And scams Medicare too. She's a real pistol. She thinks shes pretty hot shit too. I think shes a creepy, but she's convinced shes all that!!!!! YUK!!! PUK!!!!! She just tried calling son a little while ago. I talked with him, regarding her, after we move. I told him frankly that the situation is his, to do with what he wants, but.....that it worries me, and he is not going to be with her, at all, he said he would move where we are. I will pray on that. BUt I am getting good, with letting go, and letting god. I am not a religious person, but am a very spiritual person with large faith. Its gotten me this far. And from where I stand, my husband, and kids, are the bomb. They are the best people I know and I am blessed to have them, PERIOD. Everyone who meets me and husband, have commented on "How well suited we are for each other". We just match, and mesh. He's my best friend, and cherishes me, and our family. He came from good stock. I not so much, but I overcame very young, cuz, I always knew since a little girl, that my mom was not right, and was very ill. Just knew so early on, and made it a mission to never live or be like her. We are the polar opposites. She isn't capable of any deep or empathetic relationship with anyone. I pray for her friend, Mary Nell, but I think she is gettin jiggy with Maude. (thats what I refer to NM as) I love it, and renamed her 7 years ago, and it fits her to a tee.
So.......Good luck with you NM stuff,and stay strong, and know that whatever happens to her, whenever it does, you a good, and reasonable person, with a nice and supportive husband, and that despite her, you turned out really good, ....like ME!!! I am proud of my heart, and of all the love I have been givin in my lifetime, so what if it wasn't from her, the ice queen. I think god blessed my life with more good, than I could have ever imagined. I just have to literally count my blessing each day, and I do on my day planner. And it gives me a broader picture of the entire situation, and not just the bummers. I have alot of those coming my way as of late. I have an appointment in court tomorrow for bankruptcy so..............prayers please. Its almost over, and maybe next week husband can leave and get working in the state we are gonna move to. I want you to know that alot of whats happening in my life right now, is me flying on blind faith. I don't have a set calendar and dates in which to tell you how and when all is going down. But the lord is my compass and he is steering this ship totally, and I am learning to be OK with that. I say learning. Its baby steps, thru all of this. I am not navigating, I am following. And I will let all know where I land.
Stay above water, till we post again
Peace

thayilflies · member Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 520

Hello Seachelle.

"For myself, I believe that it is not for me to judge evil in this world. That's up to the Lord, in His own time. There is beauty in everything if we only look for it rather than dwell on the bad. There is even beauty in complete and total NC because it puts us at rest and sets us free, even if only for a time."

I agree. One of my favourite films "American Beauty" makes the point that despite all the trials and tribulations and BS we go through when we obtain clarity and peace there is so much beauty in the world that our own bitterness and hardship seems irrelevant in light of the bigger reality. Perhaps it is an inevitability of life that you have to take a few hits in order to progress?

"I believe my N parents, especially my mother, are ill with a disease. I always knew this but until recently I didn't know what it was or how to deal with it except thru NC, which made me feel guilty in the past. I didn't know there were other people out there just like me, nor did I try to look for message boards such as this one."

The way I see it is that we all lie somewhere on the scale of illness or dysfunction. Often we slide up and down even during the hours in a day but we are striving away from dysfunction towards functionality. Away from confusion and pain towards clarity and peace. No doubt that often the parents are further down the scale of dysfunction than their offspring.

As for the NC dilemma. It is OK. It is the right thing to do because until we are strong enough to be immune, evertime we associate with people of more dysfunction than ourselves we are subjecting ourselves to the germs of toxicity. Dysfunction is similar to any contagious bug - if you are around it you will catch it. If you are not immune the right thing to do is to avoid the risk, this is rational behaviour. This is the method of the sane.

"I maintain NC, totally and completely now, for my own emotional protection."

Again, my opinion is it is entirely sensible to preserve your own sanity. This has to be the priority for each individual. In order to progress I had to go NC. It is part of the journey up the ladder, it is another rung on the way up.

"Yes, I've broken NC in the past and regretted it but that was my decision and I knew what might happen. Yet for the sake of compassion and my personal belief that just as the Lord would never turn His back on me in a time of need, neither could I turn my back on my N parents. So, I opened myself up once again and tried to extend compassion and forgiveness to my NM when she led me to believe she was in dire straits, dying, etc. Some of it was true, some exaggerated in order to gain my sympathy and although I knew exactly what she was like, I opened both my heart and my home.

Did I pay for that? You betcha. But I knew what might happen. Do I regret trying to help my NM? Not one bit."

Again it is the inevitable NC dilemma. Human instinct is to forgive and be compassionate. We're wired as such. But the priority is to preserve your own sanity and immunise yourself from the toxicity of others. When we are immune and have it all together perhaps we can contemplate forgiveness. But only when the time is right. Otherwise you risk undoing the good work and you slide back down to square one.

"I regret her illness. I regret her disease. I regret her both her past and more recent abuse. I regret the hurt I feel. But I don't regret opening my heart and trying to help because I honestly felt that it was the right thing for me to do at the time. Compassion...even tho my heart is full of hurt, there is still beauty in compassion."

I find when I have clarity that with hindsight we make the right decisions. Sometimes we have to go backwards to go forwards. You might be kicking yourself now but when your conscience is clear you can see that each piece of the puzzle contributes to the finished picture.

"I believe there are *forces* of both good and evil in this world. But I don't believe that people are innately evil. They may be sick and do evil things, have evil thoughts and feelings that hurt us and I may hate what they do but it doesn't help me if I just wallow in my misery--and I have had plenty of misery in my life just as all of us on this forum have had. What helps is to try to pick myself up and begin again to enjoy the world in all it's glory."

Perhaps it is that people are conduits of life, of these forces? We are all capable of evil and good. I don't think it is personal.

It is very difficult to see beauty in the world when you are enclosed in darkness and pain. I think you have to try anyway because the more you can love the world, the more the world loves you and life becomes enjoyable. But it is difficult, especially when we exist in a particularly turbulent time and the human race is afraid and freakin' out and doing all sorts of strange things! If you cultivate a space of sanity in an insane world then all the power to you. It certainly isn't easy, no one said it was.

"Good luck, thayilflies. I wish you all the beauty of the universe and more."

Why thankyou!

Seachelle · Moderator Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 102

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thayilflies · member Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 520

"Just a quick one from me tonight--just wanted to say that American Beauty is one of my favorite movies too. It's so deep. My son's fiance hated it and couldnt' get past the middle-aged guy dreaming of and trying to seduce the teen. But it was about sooo much more than that."

It is an interesting window into dysfunctional families. I think there is a lot of themes applicable to human life in it and the strange things we do most of the time. It is a truism that in an insane world it is the sane who get persecuted!

"Gotta run, had a hard day. My old stove decided to bite the dust by exploding a burner. Yeah, little fires all over and a huge hole in the pot I was boiling water in. Not much damage fortunately, except for the pot and a few small spots on the countertop and, of course, my nerves."

If there is one factor here that is controllable it is the nerves. With some practice you can reach the point where not much matters anymore - took me close to ripping my hair out in frustration to realise it but the fallacy of the human is to seek meaning where there is none! Rolling Eyes

Sometimes it is hard to relax but all this time you were promised your salvation so it is OK. You'll go through hell but you wont stay there for long. It is not until you're spat out of the whirlpool that you can make sense of it but we all have a spin and then after a while we get spat out! But if you want to get spat out sooner rather than later I think the key lies in love and acceptance - I view my life as that of a slave - I just do what the master orders without asking questions. I find it is less hassle this way. Find a way to love the world even when there is a lot to hate and accept that life is a bitch!

Perhaps I'm too cynical but it helps me to live under these axioms.