Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

knoxy · Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 1047

Kiri,

No one can fix you but you - but you need the leadership to know what to do. This board will not be enough to help you.

Read up. There are a ton of articles on this board alone. We cannot tell you what your ex is going to do. Frankly, we don't really care about your ex. We care about you and your mental health. But we can't fix you either.

Seek counseling, please. We aren't here to tell you what you want to hear. We're here to tell you the truth. The truth is, it's no longer about him and what he's going to do or not do. You can only control you.

nolongertrusting · Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 275

Kirril, You sound very much like I was from the beginning.

Xp abandoned me, like a dumb arse I begged him to come back. We were married at the time. So, being that I had abandonedment issues because he abandoned me. This is what life was like:

Lets pretend this is him for a moment: Kirril, I'm going to lie to you, I'm going to take your money, you get to keep the house clean, do the yard work, the grocery shopping, the cooking, run errands for him, believe every word I say, never question me, YOU just need to accept that this is how I am. Then if I do something wrong you get to bail me out of trouble.
How dare you question what I'm saying to you. This is just a small taste of what your life is going to be like if you don't deal with your issues.

I kicked him out and later found this board. This board is where all the pieces fit. If it hadn't been for the fact that I've never had abandonment issues before I met him, I wouldn't have had the backbone to kick him out. Glad I did before I ended up dead.

Nolonger

Milo · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 821

Kirril,
Hope you've been taking note of what people have been trying to say to you here.
None of us can tell you if he will come back but if he is a genuine N, I can assure you none us here hope he never will for your sake..
What do you mean you are too worried about being abandoned to go for counselling?
That statement alone hun says to me professional counselling is exactly what you need.
This a support and RECOVERY forum Kirril, all about getting the N's out of our lives for good.
Is this what you want or still hoping he'll return?

disengaging · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1342

doctor · Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 53

Hi,Kirril,
I join all members who gave their advices,confirming the usefullness of a couselling after the breaking off of a relationship with a N.

All of us have experienced the feeling of disbelief,pain,regret,hope for coming back etc.etc.

These feelings are so pervading and obsessive that it's very difficult you can get over(recover) by yourself,, because it's a kind of poisoning,incurable without therapy.

I've had no more news from him since august 2007 and ,I'm still wondering how have it been possible that he made me felt the most loved woman in the wordl,while he had other sex affairs and a hidden side like mr.Hide.

My doctor and antidepressant helped me very much so ,even not completely,now i consider myself almost out of danger.

Take courage,Kirril,be sure you will win too.Don't look back,neither to the
"good" memories.They were fallacious1

Best wishes

kirril · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 20

Thanks for the replies. I will try to remember what you said here. It is a great help.
I am still wallowing in this emotional turmoil. I don't understand why he wants to leave.
Dr. Vaknin said Ns never abandon their NS.
He interpreted my little comment as possessive and jealous and paranoid and then he blocked me. Why do Ns like to pick a fight? Was he looking for excuse to leave? Or is he jst offended easily?

Why would a N come back when you almost get over it? Is it because he doesn't like me at all but doens't want me to go away completely?

doctor · Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 53

kirril,here again,because your question are the same I put when happened the "mess".

First of all ,remember that attack is the best form of defence;They leave because after unmasking them or criticizing,you are no more a Ns,you go on to be (or to seem )adored ,till you submit,till you believe his lies,without disagreement or awareness of their true personality.

Listen! Last year in August(we lived faraway in dfferent countries) when he was abroad for his Job,we sent sms each other daily or called on the phone.One day he sent a sms ,before coming back to Europe,with lovely,hot words.

later,(one our after) I received another sms,written in his language,to another woman ,disgusting for its porn subjet.

When asked by phone what had happened,he pretended not to understand
and only when I repeated his sms'words,he said:"I'm sorry?"

can you imagine?only ..I'm sorry,nothing else,then I said he was a piece of crap.Terrible mistake !! It was I bein wrong for my behaviour,for that
insult.Two days later he wrote a letter informing of the end of our
"sincere" relationship,with a great detachment and rage for havin been so badly offended by me.

I replied,tried to explain,and he changed style only when I pretended to believe his lies;but it wasn't so and 15 days later,I wrotr a letter for closure.

Surely,you could go on if you effaed yourself,but this woul be your devastation.
Safe yourself and trust:better times are waiting for you.

kirril · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 20

Doctor, thanks for the reply. What was his reaction to your letter for disclosure? Did he say sorry? Was he sad?

doctor · Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 53

Dear kirril,no reaction,nothing at all!

I've heard nothing more from him,since then. my letter was very strong,but not angry,rather, full of regret and disappointment.I told him that when someone wants to regain and safe a relationship,must "tell the truth" to explain,not going on to lie and denying what had happened.He did'nt reply,but I was quite,absolutely, sure about it.

The most painful thing is that he had been my first love,long time ago,and ,finding his name ,photo and address on internet(He 'd become a VIP,a top manager of a multinational)I've looked for him ,only for greeting,at the beginning.He seemed to be HAPPY,really in an unexpected way,so started our rel.again.

Happy months of love,with week end meeting. Some red flags saw but ignored by me,till the horrible end I've described just now.

I unbelievably suffered since then and i've been so depressed because i coudn't accept his hidden side ,neither understand it. only later, from a
graphologic test ,I began to learn about NPD and with a very hard work and effort,now i'm feeling much better.

i'm near you,sister,hoping you'll slowly get over as we did.

freenhealing · Joined: 04 May 2008 Posts: 60

kirril · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 20

hmmmm......thanks for the replies. One day I feel ok, but the next day I feel extremely hurt. I remember he told me how a girl has degraded him by being indifferent to him and he got angry and started devalued her. He said the best way to torture her is by ignoring her but talking to her once in a long while.
I really don't want to be devalued by him.........just before that fight, he would call me whenever he felt nervous or when he needed to tell me about his anxiety. But now the switch just flipped. Just because I said he probably tried to avoid talking to me by saying he was not feeling well, he felt degraded or doubted and got totally angry.........Maybe he really didn't feel well and tried to get some understanding from me, but I doubted about him.
How come I can't get out of this guilt or ruining the relationship. Some people said he just tried to find an excuse to leave me. Some people said he really felt degraded by me. I just can't forgive myself if he really felt degraded by me.................
If he forgives me, I will keep the distance he wants. But I just don't want him to feel degraded, you know.......

Milo · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 821

Kirril,
N's end up raging for a multitude of reasons. Unfortuntately when in the relationship with them we tend to take it all on board and end up feeling personally responsible somehow.
You didn't ruin the relationship hun. I doubt you 'degraded' him either.
You don't need his 'forgiveness' in any way!!!
Hopefully once you genuinely understand the nature of an N, this will sink in.
You owe him nothing Kirril.
It's yourself that needs nurtuing.
Hugs, Milo

kirril · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 20

Milo, thanks for the comfort. yes, I can't stop feeling responsible for his anger. I can't stop crying these days. I can't stop torturing myself with the thought of him devaluing me from now. I have always been so kind to him. Although I am paranoid sometimes, very remark I made about him is out of warmth. How come he didn't feel it? I don't ask for empathy; I only want him to feel my care and friendiness.......

Milo · Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 821

Kirril,
We've all cried heaps and questioned ourselves hun.
You were a true participant in the relationship. He wasn't.
I suspect you still hope he will show / express some kind of genuine feeling. Perhaps even 'remorse/ regret'.
I remember my early days Kirril when relationship with N finally came to an end. I was utterly devastated and confused.
I searched net and found out about NPD eventually and all the pennies finally fell into place.
It's not an easy road to recovery hun but one worth following.
A day will come when you too post here telling others how far you've come.
Have faith dear soul you are better off without him, OK.
Best Wishes,
Milo

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1539

Eight Ways to Spot Emotional Manipulation

Emotional Manipulation is Also "Covert Aggression." See: "Psychopaths: Wolves in Sheep's Clothing" Here is a list adapted from an article by Fiona McColl

1. There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around. Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the moment - but you see I didn’t want to trouble you. You are right I should have put all this pain (don’t be surprised to see real tears at this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since they’ve said the words you’re pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - don’t capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels like bullshit. If it feels like bullshit - it probably is. Rule number one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver - it’s added to their hit list and you’ll be fed a steady diet of this shit.

2. An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF they didn’t volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" - they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let you know they don’t really want to do whatever said thing happens to be. When you tell them it doesn’t seem like they want to do whatever - they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making - which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they don’t want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their theater.

3. Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of what’s been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and they’ll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their words for posterity’s sake. The damndest thing about this is that having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first place. If you’re toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol’ bullshit meter should be flashing steady by now!

4. Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim. They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them (which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around and say they certainly didn’t want or expect you to do anything! Try to make a point of not fighting other people’s battles, or doing their dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and note the bullshit meter once again.

5. Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They don’t deal with things directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put others in the position of telling you what they would not say themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways of letting you know they are not happy little campers. They’ll tell you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of jerk off shit to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to school honey and you know I’ll support you." Then exam night you are sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie" is sitting on their ass looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you can’t expect life to just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or choke ‘em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and it’ll probably wind your butt in jail.

6. If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. It’s hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it. Don’t bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!

7. Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much right to have your needs met.

8. Emotional manipulators have no sense of accountability. They take no responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety. Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive, emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable. Believe me when I say that an emotional manipulator is about as vulnerable as a rabid pit bull, and there will always be a problem or a crisis to overcome.

SOURCE: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/emotional_manipulation.htm

Thread: http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/emotional-manipulators-t8624.html

Kirril,

I hope that the info available in the threads on the main forum, as well as in here, are helpful to you to get beyond the denial. N, NPD or not - this guy is emotionally abusive to you and has you convinced that you are the one emotionally abusive to him... that's called Projection hun. ( Projection: seeing your own unwanted feelings in other people. http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/coping-mechanisms-t8650.html and http://samvak.tripod.com/personalitydisorders21.html ) These people are masters at that, mirroring your ideal, and leaving you high and dry without giving even a second thought. People are expendable to them.

Very, very hard to accept that someone that means or meant so much to us could regard us with so little value and respect... but once you accept it, you start on a new path - free of confusion.

Why does what he think/want/need/decide matter so much more than what you think, feel, need or decide??? What makes him so much better than you? NOT A THING!! You don't deserve this (keep repeating that to yourself til you believe it). Don't put him on a pedastle. He doesn't belong there. You do realize that that is where you are putting him, right?? He's got all the control right now - over the relationship, you, you life. Anyone 'healthy' would not project, they aren't "cold, detached and angry" ; rather they value and respect you as an EQUAL partner and friend. It takes two to make a r/s work... it will NOT work if only one person is putting forth the effort to keep the r/s together. It will not grow but only stagnate. Kind of like if you row on only one side of a boat - you go around in circles - it take TWO oars to move the boat in any clear direction. Sounds to me like you are the only one making a concerted effort to keeping your r/s together - you're the only one giving it careful thought and consideration. Why do you want to carry all that weight? It's not worth it! Let him go. Don't wait for him to 'abandon' you... Leave. Refuse to tolerate less that what you deserve. Stand up for yourself and refuse to be verbally, emotionally and mentally abused by an unstable, disordered, pathological person.

What advice would you give your sister, best friend, daughter or niece if they were in your shoes???

No one is worth your self respect and self esteem. NO ONE. Anyone who truly loves you would never even attempt to compromise those things.

Wishing you well Kirril. Believe me, we all know oh to well what it's like to be in denial. You will make it through though.

loux

Wish you well.
_________________
Beautiful light is born of darkness, so the faith that springs from conflict is the strongest and the best. Light is the symbol of truth. Give light, & the darkness will disappear of itself.

~ This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine...