Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

leenajade · Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 5

Hi everyone.

I have been reading about narcissisim and other personality disorders. I am worried my boyfriend has one of these. I am worried I have one of these. I read a list of things abusers say, and some of the things he says to me, and some of the things i say to him.

Ok, the story goes like this... Sorry it's so long.

I have been with him for 5 years. We're just bf/gf. We're both mid twenties and we don't live together.

I have him catalogued as selfish and self-centered because he will rarely do anything for anyone but himself. Whenever i need him or want him to do something with me or for me, he says that I'm the one who should be understanding of HIM and leave him alone.

For example, i have a problem with the way he avoids my family. I understand it's uncomfortable, and i was willing to not 'make' him go if he didn't want to. But then, when he *never* goes with me to anything, not my birthday dinners, not a wedding, nothing, it bugs the hell out of me. Even more so because then he starts whining about how i take *his* time and give it or use it with other stuff. He says he feels i'm only with him when i got nothing better to do. Which isn't true, i blow off a lot of things because our time together is a priority for me, but i can't just blow EVERYTHING off all the time, i got a family too. After talking and fighting a lot about this, he at least agreed to get off my case when i spend some time with them. (which, really, isn't that often).

The thing that concerns me most right now, is that he lied to me about cheating on me.
He had told me years ago that he had a one night stand with a friend of his. He said he was sorry and acted really remorseful. Somehow convinced me to not dump him. I really loved him... All these years i've had lots of triggers and suffered so much for that, have been more jealous and insecure because of this. But i just got a 'part' of the story, he never told me who it was with. That mystery ate at me like you have no idea!! My mind was always making up stories, "oh, maybe it was with "___" and THAT's why he can't tell me"
Long story short, i thought it was with someone that he knew i would never forgive. So after all this time, i started asking these unanswered questions again, because i felt i couldn't trust him completely because he was still hiding this from me. I told him this, and he responded by dumping me. Said he thought it was for the best, since i didn't seem to get over this at all.
A few days passed and he called me, he said he took the 'i dump you' thing back. That he wanted this to work out. To just let go of these 'questions' and trust him. I tried, but i only felt worse because now i knew he was willing to dump me to keep the 'truth' concealed from me.
So i told him again, "i can't do this". I asked him to tell me again. He dumped me again.
A few days passed, and he called and said he wanted to tell me the truth, that there was no point in keeping it to himself anymore if he wasn't going to be with me anymore. His truth was: he made it all up. The One night stand never happened. That he just told me that because he was mad at me at the time, who knows why. That all the details he gave me were made up, that he told me those things because he thought that was what i wanted to hear. He told me that he couldn't believe i valued more this 'truth' than what we had together. That my curiosity ended our relationship. That it was all a test to see how much i loved him, and he came to the conclusion that i didn't because i insisted so much on this and let everything go to hell. I was in SHOCK.
He also said that he couldn't tell me the truth because i always react so badly (here's where i sound like an abuser, i said 'i only react that way because i actually care... if i didn't love you i wouldn't even flinch') I think i'm entitled to yell and cry and storm out, i have smacked him too, which i admit is wrong and have done all that's i can to keep my hands to myself when i'm upset, but i have done it anyway...

So i don't know what to think. Later he called and called and finally said he was sorry. He asked what he could do for me to give him another chance. He sounded really sorry. I gave in. But i still feel like something's wrong.
When asked why didn't he tell me he had made it up when he saw how much it hurt me, he said he just didn't know how. Figured he would just live with that lie as a truth.
What really bothers me is that he sounded and seemed so remorseful when he came out and told me about the affair... and now he tells me he was mad? It sure didn't look that way. How can i trust that NOW he's really sorry and not just 'mad' again?

Oh, and he got mad that i shared this part of our 'story' with my sister. He says our problems are ours and i shouldn't be talking about us to anyone.
I agree that we shouldn't be venting all our 'dirty laundry' to everyone... but sounds like something an abuser would say.

I'm very confused...

Any insight, input or advice very very welcome.

wendy d · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 148

leenajade,

That does sound like an exhausting and stressful relationship. The only things that I can tell you are from my own thoughts. I can not say what he or you are in regards to a P or N but you sound like you have real feelings and emotions which crosses those out.

I think your sense of yourself is getting lost in all this.

To me the things he says to you and your mixed feelings run very close to my experiences and I bet most everyone else who is connected emotionally to an abuser.

You say you are in your 20's, if so then his behavior over this "maybe lie" is extremely immature and shows his capabilities to deceive you without a second thought. He will do it again and again, lie, cheat or both.

I am much older and my ex told me his lies were based on protecting me because I could not deal with the truth. I had never given him any reason to think like this about me. When we had a heated discussion my emotions were real and if some one showed up he would instantly be a smiling, easy going jovial person no matter how upset he appeared seconds ago! On the other hand I'm angry, upset and not quite ready to just turn the feelings of and socialize normally. Things as usual are left dangling not quite coming to any closure or conclusion. He is all friendly and being funny and I am in the other room "unfriendly" (just bitchy)as I try to get myself together.

My true personality was well hidden underneath the weight of all this craziness.

He would be so friendly to who ever showed up and act like my behavior was off the wall, not a reason for it, women you know "wink wink".

If I was angry when someone arrived he would put a wide eyed, hang dog, innocent little boy look at them as if to say "see what I put up with, this ball busting woman", no matter how hard I try to please her it is never good enough"

There were times I acted in ways and he would say you are just the same as me but this is so untrue. I could learn from my mistakes, I could grow and mature, and best of all I could always tell the truth and learn and live with the reactions from the world as I grew as a human being.

Look at this angle of it. Are you growing and learning from your errors and lapses in judgement? Is he? All of us have behaved in ways we regret (except maybe N's) and as a result try to become better people and improve ourselves internally. We say or do things without realizing the effect on others and when we see what we've done we feel sorrow and regret. Often we will play it over and over in our minds trying out different endings and responses in our minds looking for ways to alieviate our guilt and prevent a reoccurance. This is called reflection and growth and is what humans do. Does he?

You may lose it ( you have already lost sight of some of yourself) and act badly at times but we all do, we are all the same inside and pain is pain.
What is important is that you learn from your experiences and recognize what is not working for you and discard this behavior from your life. Work on you not him. Grow from your feelings and anguish rather than be held back by self doubt and guilt. Accept yourself and your confusion as normal for what you deal with and acting badly and out of control is something you can work on. It is normal to act abnormal when you are dealing with an abnormal situation.

Don't beat yourself up because you think you are the same as him. As long as you truly care about others you are a real loving human being. Keep growing from your experiences.

Good luck and keep growing in yourself.

Wendy d

leenajade · Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 5

Thank you Wendy.

I do "try" to learn from the things i know i've done wrong. But sometimes it is way too hard to control myself when i'm really really mad. I've tried to substitute the pinching or slapping with just leaving the room. But it bothers him if i leave the room too...

I know i'm not like him, because i actually care about how he feels, what he wants and i would never hurt him on purpose. A little while back i used to blame myself for everything that went wrong... i would think that i must have done something terribly wrong and not have noticed for him to react that way. I thought he was just so sensitive, that i had to be more careful. But then i noticed that no amount of being careful worked. Even when i did things in the way we had agreed on, he would get mad or depressed, or get cold with me. So, from then i have started blaming him. I get mad when he tells me that all would be better if i just work harder.
After lots of discussions about this subject, it appears that he has understood that he had to be nicer as well. He has been on certain matters. But i don't know if it's just an act.

A while back he lashed out at me because he got frustrated and annoyed with me while he was shopping for x-mas presents for my family. No obvious reason, he just didn't feel like shopping with me i guess. He said that he got tired of pretending he was fine with it all and had to show his true feelings from time to time. So i don't know if he's actually learning or just faking until it all explodes...

He has done that "thing" where his feelings of anger magically disappear too.
We would fight horribly and then, when other people came into the picture, he would be all friendly, and making jokes, laughing, as if nothing.
I tried to pull myself together, and not make a scene, but i guess you could tell that i was not feeling well, and he seemed just oh so very fine. I think he does it to bug me, like to show me he doesn't really care. I don't know. He always gets on my case about how 'i want everyone to see' that he makes me feel bad. Well, if i feel bad it's gonna show someway, i'm not that good of an actress. And he doesn't seem to understand that.

wendy d · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 148

hi leenajade,

I remember being this young and full of doubt while in my bad relationship. I was always second guessing myself and giving him the benefit of my insecurity in my own ability to know the truth or at least question what was going on. I was so unsure of my thoughts and feelings that I was afraid to even voice them. The side of giving always seemed wieghed to my side. I heard people tell me it was a bad relationship but I was certain that if I just found the right combination of things this man needed he would finally be happy and content and love me forever. Like you said nothing I did was ever enough. He was like a big black starving hole with no bottom. No matter what went in there it remained empty.

This person does not have your best interests at heart. True love finds pleasure in seeing joy on the face of a loved one. True love tries to bring this about as much as possible. True love thrives on peace, harmony and joy in life in those they care for. True love is selfishly trying to bring happiness to others as this brings peace and happiness to true love.

Who would not want peace and joy in their daily lives? Perhaps the person you are with?

He seems to thrive on the negative energy produced by the pain and confusion he brings around him. Keeping secrets and mystery around your lives which causes you unbalance is what feeds his appitite for mayhem.

I will tell you right now that the violent acts you express are not true to your nature. They do not bring you pleasure or release and only add to your doubts and guilt. There are many of us who lashed out inappropriately in a time when we had felt out of control and had no chioices but acted on instinct to survivive.

There is a reason it is called crazy making. When I said discard unwanted behavior from your life I know this can not be done overnight. Learning new ways to think and behave takes a long time and experience with growth and maturity is the road to a balanced adulthood.

The fact that you recognize this about yourself and do not like acting in this manner gives you miles of road up on him when it comes to personal advancement in your growth as a valuable human being. Do not waste too much of your precious essence on him. He is determined to destroy your very soul. He will reduce you to a raw bleeding emotionally ripped apart festering wound and then blame you for acting unreasonable and bleeding on his carpet.

Who can think properly with a knife stuck in their heart? Of course you scream and pinch and what ever else. He has reduced you to his level and you do not know how to "be" or "feel" while there and the conflict in your mind is so horribly painful that some kind of release is needed to stay sane. Your reactions are your only protection against the terror of being in a dark place with threats that are clearly there but unseen.

You feel off balance around him because you do not fit where he is in his world. You can not think like him. He is unbalanced in your world because he does not fit there and he can not think like you. This is not a good relationship.

Which life do you really want?

You did not create his emotional problems and you can not rescue him from his past hurts. He is too full of anger and hate towards the world. He needs deep therapy from professionals not understanding and patience from you. This is not your profession and you are way to young to through your energies away on something you can not fix or control.

If you chose to stay with him you will remain at his level always. He does not want to advance to better understanding of anything. He likes things as they are. His world will be unsettled always.

If you chose to move on you can not bring him with you as he must come along of his own free will not kicking and screaming. Attaching him to your journey will slow you down and keep you spinning in one spot as you rehash the same old BS over and over for years to come.

It is hard enough rowing our own boat upstream without hitching up someone who has no interest in going anywhere.

You are young, inexperienced and filled with doubt. You can read the words here in this site but his influence in clouding your perceptions is strong because he is right there and probably your last contact before bed. He will try to stop you from growing up into the complete and balanced person you are fully capable of being.

Try to believe in yourself and follow your nagging voices of doubts towards him and his actions.

One method I used was to say " OK I may be wrong but if that proves to be the case I will take full responsibility for the consequences". Then if it happens this way follow through take responsibility and rectify what you can without excuses or shifting blame. This is an example to him of how to be a grown up. You will see that the mistakes you make will come fewer and farther between as you learn your limits and he can not shake you down with doubts.

So if you believe a truth to be the solid truth act as if it is so and accept the consequences if you are proved wrong. It is better to be safe and proven wrong and grow from this than to remain in one spot frozen in doubt and confusion. You will not often be wrong as long as you believe in yourself and stand strong.

Please try to find belief in yourself. There is a reason the questions swirl in your mind. If this was a good relationship you would be more at peace with your life even if he did not like the same movies or want to be around your relatives. It is called compromise.

We do not have to be identical twins to have a balanced relationship but an understanding and acceptance of each others differences. The balance comes from being respectful and honest, giving each other the freedom to be different. Along with this is the understanding that certain lines of personal ethics and morals must be respected and agreed on. As well, as stated above, true love strives to bring harmony to it's loved ones. This erases bad behavior as a regular pattern.

Being different has nothing to do with being a liar, perverted or abusive, this is not different in personalities, pleasures and dreams but criminal in thought and nature.

My point is to believe in yourself, do not beat yourself up so much with self doubt, do not be held back by guilt over your own actions, and try to move on from this destructive influence in your life.

Wishing you all the best
Wendy d

plink · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 97

Leenajade-I don't know if he's necessarily an N or a P, but he sure does sound like a selfish, dishonest and manipulative jerk. And this is just my opinion and a hunch at that, but I think he's lying about the whole cheating thing never happening. I think he most likely DID do it and is covering up for it now by saying he just said it to hurt you because he'd either have to tell you whom he cheated with eventually or have you keep asking him and have to keep breaking up with you. This latest story of his just doesn't sound kosher to me...
You're only in your twenties, girlfriend, you need to find somebody lower maintenance. Take it from someone in her late fifties who wishes she'd not only faced the unpleasant truth, but ACTED on it for the last 40 years. Get out of this precarious situation while you still like yourself, PLEASE!

And, Wendy, thank you for so eloquently explaining how we can find ourselves reacting to crazy-making behavior like we are the crazy ones. I remember several years ago telling my mother about my then boyfriend's ex-wife and how she'd tried to run him over with her car several times and my mom said, "sounds like she's as crazy as he is", to which I replied, "no, you just don't get it...", because he'd brought out the violence in me too. To illustrate, one time he was taunting me and saying cruel things and I tried to lock myself in the bathroom to get away from him and he pushed against the door so I couldn't. In my frustration, I shoved him out of the way and he was dumbstruck. He said, "I can't believe you hit me". And I said, "I can't either. I'm in my thirties and you're the first man I have EVER hit". And he said, kind of amused, "You're the second woman to tell me that..."

I had a therapist once who told me that whoever holds the most power in a relationship sets the rules of engagement. And that is almost certainly what that's all about.

leenajade · Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 5

Thank you so much for your advice wendy, and plink.

This doubts are driving me insane. I don't know what to believe anymore.

About giving eachother the freedom to be different... that's what he says too. That i should understand that he just doesn't want to come with me to my things. It's not that he doesn't like my family, it's not that he hates them, he's just not interested. I tried to be understanding, but when i see him being all talkative with other people's families it hurts my feelings. I see him being nice to people that i know he doesn't give a damn for, but he does it because he sees a "purpose" for it, being that he'll get something useful for himself...
I'm not asking him to be the son my folks never had, only to be more supportive... i feel somewhat empty about not being able to share certain things with him. Like, for example, just this week my first niece was born. I'm so excited about it, i spent two days at the hospital, and i usually see him everyday, but since i was at the hospital we didn't see eachother. 5 years together and he can't come visit at the hospital to meet my niece and be with me even for a short while. It doesn't feel right to me. It hit me so hard, he's a complete stranger in the single other most important aspect of my life.

He claims he loves me so much, but that he doesn't want to come with me to my stuff... that he WOULD, against his own wishes, but that he doesn't want to feel like he's BUYING my love. Like he feels the only way i will love him is by doing this, that i don't care about anything else about us and our relationship and how he feels about me. He makes me feel like i'm being selfish, and maybe i am, cause i want him to be supportive because I feel bad, i'm only thinking about myself... but, i've tried to compromise with him, and in any way that things are done a lil' bit my way, he refuses. He wants no contact with my family at all (he'll put up with seeing and greeting them at my house, but that's cause i live with my parents, i wonder how he would be if we were to live together...) I want at least SOME on special events, like my niece's birth, x-mas, for example. But then i feel guilty and back off because i know that going with me makes him unhappy. And i hate to feel like the love of my life suffers when being a part of my life, and doesn't seem to get that my life covers various aspects other than just being with him and the activities we usually do together. Does this sound selfish on my part to you?

And on top of that, yeah, i don't really believe that he made up all about the cheating thing. Things just don't add up. It makes everything way more twisted... but, who knows? Either way it makes me doubt him so much, and he expects me to believe in him just cause he says so. To have plain faith in him without anything to back it up. This is driving me nuts.

And i agree with plink, thank you wendy for the explanation of 'crazy-making behavior'. I'm usually the calm one... the only other person that i have actually fought with and had things get ugly is with my sister, when we were kids and teenagers. We would fight over stupid stuff, i would then ignore her when she got all patronizing, which made her furious and she would hit me. I would only defend myself, but i was always the one that was able to keep her cool more.
I have found myself telling my boyfriend that he's the only one i yell at like this and pinch and slap like this, but i feel like that sounds totally abusive on my part. Like he says, if you don't like how things are, just leave, don't hit or yell. That sounds reasonable. But i totally lose my temper.

Thank you so much for your support and advice, i really appreciate it.
I feel very confused and don't have anyone to talk to about this... without having them think 'what's wrong with you?' anyways.

wendy d · Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 148

Dear leenajade,

What I would like to discuss is this differences thing. I don't want to give you the wrong idea about this. The process of comprimise involves fairness on both sides. If you are experiencing emotional grief over his continuing to avoid these times with you it is not a comprimise but a dictatorship on his part. I am certain you try to be fair beyond fair and it still does not work.

When my ex wanted to go hunting alone with the guys this was agreed between him and I with guide lines on expectations of both of us while apart. Then you honor these agreements. You continue to respect the person you love even when they are not in your presence.

Comprimise also means taking part at times in the other person's interests and special times to support their happiness and vice versa. An example would be for you two to agree to attend the birthday party but prior to going prearrange the time you both will leave. This way he will not be controlled by the event or family but by the already agreed upon time frame. If he fights being reasonable he is the one in the wrong here or he is severely anti social. If this is the case you will lose all contact with your family and friends once you are an independant couple

What he is showing you are snippets or trailers of his true character and once you are trapped in a position where he feels in full control you will see the full feature of this horror movie. He is a loser.

The emotional pain and confusion you are going through now are just little splashes of the waves of emotional agonies waiting in your future with this man.

Please understand that a good relationship is not filled with constant heartache, confusion and occasional wild Disneyland times but is a combination of mostly good days where the mainstay is security and trust, mixed with fantastic days and of course bad days once in awhile to even it all out and give us appreciation for our true love that carries us through these stormy times. Friends in the end.

It is normal to disagree and get angry at each other but not everyday and not in such intense ways all the time. It is not normal for someone as young as you to suffer such terrible doubts and stress everyday. You should be living your young life while you have one.

At your age you should be telling about how much all of you laughed at the last gathering. Your memories and thoughts should be giving you smiles not frowns.

Happiness is your birthright, claim it.

All the best
Wendy d

leenajade · Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 5

Thank you wendy. What you say in your post sounds very reasonable. And it seems very hard to obtain with my boyfriend.
He is very anti-social, but this can be selective. I've seen him be funny and charming and so talkative with other strange people. Even with parents of people we barely know. And it's not that those folks are nicer than mine. Mine are very nice too. That's what bothers me the most. If i knew he's shy around EVERYONE i would understand more, but when it's selective like this and i get the worse part of the deal, i hate it. He claims he doesn't want to be fake with me, that that is his reason.

And you're right, i should be getting laugh wrinkles, not frown ones, lol.

Thanks again.

americanwoman · Joined: 10 May 2008 Posts: 7

I feel terrible for you. Have been through exactly the same thing, a verbally and emotionally abusive man who still insists (even after we have separated) that it is me who is abusive - RUBBISH!!!

Idea

Get the book - Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, you can find it used at very reasonable prices on amazon.com. This book tells exactly how men like this operate and why they accuse women of being the problem and refuse to accept responsibility for their own behavior.