Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

batterpeake · Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Posts: 14

This is all terrific advice.
But I hate doing everything on the sly. It feels like I am doing just what my wife expects of me - sneaking around and lying and deceiving.
Even writing to this list makes me feel like I am having an affair.

But again, today, I realize that I have to leave. She will never change, never get better. And early this morning when she woke up she was so nice, and I thought, wow, what a relief! But then she struck out at me again.

It makes me so sad, so hopeless, that I keep thinking it will get better, even when she's nice for four hours.

Sorry, I'm upset today.

batterpeake

alamobelle3 · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 615 Location: San antonio Texas

Oh my - First of all the motive is the big difference - N's do all that to meet their needs you may do it as self preservation and survival.

If they were normal we wouldnt have to do anything at all . they are not
and treating them as if they are is the most dangerous action to take.

They will do whatever they are confident they can get away wth. Never
ever underestimate their willingness and ability to cause you harm .

They care not one whit about us. Never forget it .
_________________
illegitimis non carborundum

Ginger Rodgers matched Fred Astaire step for step only she did it backwards and in high heels !

SassyAnnie13131 · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 228 Location: Minnesota

I wrote this awhile ago, but I thought I would post it in hopes it is helpful.

1) Get a Post Office Box in another zip/postal code. You can mail yourself important documents like car titles, mortgage information, birth certificates, marriage license, car insurance, bank statements, etc, and get them out of the house. If money is a serious issue, mail these items to a trusted friend.

2) Make copies, discretely, of anything you may need later, such as the items mentioned above and things like tax returns, W2's, N's previous divorce decree's (if available), credit card numbers of all accounts, retirement accounts, anything of monetary value and anything you think N will shred or hide once you are gone. Never assume you will be able to go back and get these things. Mail these items to your friend, or PO Box.

Also, if you can, save receipts. If you run across a couch receipt, or any receipt for the kids, such as winter coats, clothing, medicine, etc, save them. Mail them to yourself or your friend. Possession is 9/10th's of the law, but receipts are great proof, too. When N says, "We never had a big screen TV" (because he now has stolen it from the home or sold it) you can produce the receipt (see video camera below, too). When N says he is the one who does everything for the kids, show the attorney the receipt you saved from the amusement park that you just went to. You get my point.

3) Borrow or rent a video camera. While N is gone, make a video of the entire home, inside and out. Include his clothing, your jewelry, cars (inside and out), motorcyles, campers, tools, furniture, heirlooms, pets (seriously), anything pre-N. Act as if you know the house will burn down the next day and you need a record of anything in it. N's will lie, steal, destroy, move and hide anything of value and anything they feel is important to you. You need a record. If you do not have a camera, or cannot borrow one, stores like Blockbuster will rent one to you. If you get busted by N, you can say you saw on TV that homeowners or renters should document everything in case of disasters like hurricanes and fires. This way, the insurance company can reimburse you for all of your stuff. Give the tape to a friend or family member immediately.

4) Get a cell phone. If you do not have one and worry about the money factor, you can get a "pay-as-you-go" phone from Cingular or Virgin Mobile. Use your PO Box as your address. There is no credit check. The pay-as-you-go phones are great because no one needs to know about the phone. If you want, give it to a friend to hang on to and as the time nears for departure, throw it in your purse. If busted, say it is a friend's and she left it behind and you forgot to return it.

As a last resort, get an old phone from a friend. In the very least, it can call 911 in an emergency, even with no "minute plan".

If you have a plan already, but it is on N's account, or is a "family plan" call and find out when the contract is up. Ask what is involved in keeping the same handset, but creating a new account.

If you are the account holder (or can get that negotiated) and have N's cell phone on your account & know he won't return it and you're under contract, there is something you can do. Call and ask that the phone number be changed on N's handset! In order for the phone to work with the new number, the handset has to be programmed. Once the phone number change is applied, the handset will stop working until it is programmed by the owner. Ask that a password be added to your account and that N can have no access. When he calls in, he will be refused. He is left with a handset that doesn't work, and you are still abiding by your cell contract. Later, you can replace the handset and have it work with the new number and give it to your child, or family member.

5) Request a free copy of your credit report. In the US, most states require that consumers can have 1 free copy per year. You may very well be surprised at what N will do with their partner's credit. I have seen numerous instances in which credit cards were opened and maxed out and my friends never knew a thing. You can also get a copy of N's, too. Ahem.

6) Begin hoarding money. I am not insinuating you take money, but begin establishing an emergency fund. If you are working, skim some off the top of your paycheck Stop direct deposit if you have to. Give it in cash to a friend. If you can even get just a few hundred extra stashed away, it will help. If you are reasonably certain you will get to stay in the home, there are even more things you can do.

First, find out what name(s) the utility bills are under. If it is both, or just yours, pay a little extra on each bill. If the phone bill is $50, pay $75. You'll need the credit on the account later, as a cushion. If you can do this with community money, then even better.

7) Get the heirlooms OUT of the house. Did Grandma give you her pearls? Did your child make wonderful Valentine's cards for you? Begin removing those items from the home. Again, do not anticipate you will ever be able to get back in the home once N knows you are leaving him. Assume you cannot. Be very careful to take only things that are legally yours. If N busts you and asks, "I haven't seen Grandma's pearls in your jewelry box, where are they?" you can gaslight him back and say that you lost them last year, doesn't he remember? Act upset. Tell him you want new pearls for your birthday. Deflect. But do get those items out of the house and to a safe place.

Cool

Open a credit card in your name only. Usually, we're not "allowed" to have our own credit card. You *will* need this later. If you have to use community money you have been hoarding to pay the security deposit (if required) then do so. Apply with a different address. Use the PO Box, if the company allows it. If not, use a friends address and phone.

9) Begin "Spring Cleaning." This is a well-used tactic to rid yourself of things you do not need and to determine what you do. If N is a trash digger, put the excess in a grocery store's garbage, if you can, or even a neighbor's. Lots of charities have scheduled pick-ups for each neighborhood. The Epilepsy Foundation does this. Hide the bags until pick-up day and put them at the curb after N is gone. He won't even know and chances are, you can even get a tax break. Just be sure to give the charity your PO Box address as your mailing address.

If you are kicking N out, you can "Spring Clean" his stuff into boxes. If it is Spring, put all his winter gear in boxes, labeled. Closet full of shoes? Put those in labeled boxes. A neat trick is to say you want to declutter the closet and store what isn't being used. Turn all the clothes hangers backwards. When something is worn frequently, hang it the correct way. At the end of a month, whatever is still hanging backwards goes into a box. Tell him you saw it on Oprah.

10) Plan ahead! Will your health insurance be cut off? (Negotiate this with attorney). If you are unsure, go to the dentist now. Make appointments for the kids, too. Go to the Gynecologist now for your annual exam. Go to your family doctor for your annual physical now, even if you normally do not. Don't take any chances. Are you on medication? Check with your insurance company and see if you can order 3 month supplies of each medication through the mail. Most companies offer this service and it is cheaper, too. If N asks, tell him you are saving money. He'll love that.

- Does your car need repair(s)? Get it done now. New tires for winter? Get them now. Does the water heater need to be replaced? Get it done yesterday. Plan ahead and get major repairs done, if you can. Especially when it comes to your car. Get the oil changed! Get the dog or cat to the vet!

11) A word about pets. Unfortunately, pets are considered to be "personal property" when it comes to divorce or separation. They are treated the same way as the couch or dinette. If you want to keep your pets there are some steps you can take. You want to establish ownership. There are two ways to do this. First, you can apply for a dog/cat license through your city. Usually, this costs about $10. Put the license in *your* name only. If busted by N, say you read that the city is going to crack down on unlicensed pets.

-Second, bring the pet to the vet for a check-up (plan ahead) and when you do, make sure the name on the pet's account is *yours* only. Most vet's will print out a receipt or record of the visit. Make sure it says your name only. Save this copy. Mail it to yourself at your PO Box or give it to a friend.

-Third, make sure the pet's name tag has your name on it as the contact.

12) Talk to an attorney immediately. Find out his/her fees. Get referrals. If you cannot afford an attorney, or are worried about the cost, call a woman's shelter or a local law school. Many shelters know of discounted or sliding scale lawyers. Local law school students can be very, very helpful in offering low cost, if not free advice. When you decide on an attorney, provide him/her with the following:

- List of what you want to accomplish. Do you want the house? Which car? Visitation guidelines for N if you have kids. Spousal support? Child support? Who is going to pay the mortgage or rent while the divorce is in progress? Car payments?

- Make a list of the items you *must* have, items you really would like to keep and items you could care less about. Decide which items N is going to kick and scream to have. Do what your attorney advises, of course, but some people here have acted as if they really, really wanted that big screen TV or camper, so that they can eventually "back down" and get something off of their "must have" list as a "compromise." Choose your battles.

- Do you want the house sold? If so, how are the profits going to be divided? Do you want 50% of the equity? Do you want 50% of the selling price? Be sure to get an appraisal done immediately. N will no doubt say he wants the house, wants to buy you out, but once he sees that appraisal, you can bet he'll back off, or if he is serious, then negotiate. If you've gotten a copy of his credit report, you may be in a position to know, financially, if he can get approved for a loan to buy you out. If you see that he has hideous credit, tax liens, etc, then you know he is just listening to his own magical thinking & you can accurately measure your response to his "I want the house now" rants.

- Demand that a financial disclosure be done first thing. Like yesterday. Do this before he is served, if possible. If you have done your homework, you already have tracked down N's accounts. Chances are, he will move or hide the money in a New York minute. Be sure safe deposit boxes are listed. Be prepared.

- If N is not a physically violent N and you feel he is a good parent and visitation is not a huge issue, then have the attorney draw up a parenting agreement. You can even do a draft of this. Decide how visitation is going to happen and where & when. Who goes to what school function? What bed times are appropriate? Meals? What is ok to watch on TV? Who can babysit besides you or N? (read: OW and neighbors are not a good idea). How is contact going to happen regarding the kids? (Suggestion: email only, so you have written record). Draw it up. Set the boundaries NOW. Also, this lays out your expectations and when N tries to say you are a terrible parent, you've already proven you are not with this agreement. By going on the offense with this, you may be able to eliminate some of the "bad parent" smear campaign. It will happen, but perhaps it will not be as intense.

- Many have filed for custody, child support and a restraining order all at once. Makes for an easy process serving. Again, set the boundaries early.

13) If you are leaving N, plan your financial security now. N's love to control the money, so if you are leaving N and know money is going to be a huge, huge, issue then begin planning now. You can apply for public assistance now. (PO Box comes in handy here). If you have a target date that you will be gone, you can plan assistance around this date in most states. Work with a woman's organization if you need to.

Legend · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Southeast USA

SassyAnnie,

Great, great information!!

I also wanted to add if there are things that N won't ever miss and you want, get those things out of the house ie dishes, towels, linens. Have a friend or family member keep them for you. Another idea, if you can afford it, is to have a friend or family member rent a storage unit for you. Move things now and if you are fortunate enough to have N move out via RO or by choice, start packing and move more of those things.

If there is a chance that N will accuse you of spending money on frivilous things, start saving all your receipts so you can compare them with your banking statement.

If you are short of money, start looking around at things that you don't need anymore and take them to local clothing & furniture consignment shops.

I previously recommended taking out extra cash via debit card on grocery trips as it's untraceable money. Another suggestion is to start buying extra items for yourself to pack away, ie canned foods, diapers, dry cereal.

Hugs,
Legend
_________________
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

"Realize your personal legend." Paulo Coelho

femfree · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 665

Leaving Resources

http://nz.msnusers.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/6.msnw

"When one door closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened."
Helen Keller

EMERGENCY TACTICS: We recommend for your safety you do NOT tip your hand to your abuser you are leaving. Get out while s/he is away. There's plenty of help available. Find it and use it. We know of one psychiatrist who told his patient - tell your abuser you're coming into an inheritance. While RAPIDLY planning your safe exit this tip could come in handy. Don't waste time leaving. And, consider leaving a note that reads something like 'I'm confused about my feelings, I need to sort things out and I'll contact you when I have done that." Then, of course, have no more contact with your abuser.

If you willingly contact your abuser, while claiming you need help and that he is abusive you will be cancelling out your story and undermining your credibility. Conduct yourself accordingly.

Perceived Inability to Escape, J. Carver, PhD
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=469

Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser by Joseph Carver, PhD
http://www.drjoecarver.com/stockholm.html

How to Break Up with a Dangerous Man,
Planning a Co-ordinated Exit to Reduce the Probability of Harm
by Sandra L. Brown M.A.
http://www.saferelationships.com/

Stockholm Syndrome
http://www.geocities.com/kidhistory/trauma/stockhol.htm

Leaving Abusive Relationships - Catalytic Factors. A. Bettencourt (discusses learned helplessness)
http://www-mcnair.berkeley.edu:16080/97Journal/Bettencourt.html

The Greatest Escape – DV Tips
http://www.justicewomen.com/tips_escape.html

Deciding to Leave
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page11.html
Letting Go
http://www.loveadvice.com/ARTICLES/LETGO.HTM

Safety Planning
http://www.bpd411.org/safeplan.html

Leaving an Abusive Relationship
http://abuse101.com/leaving.html

About Leaving - Mentions Borderline, an excellent resource about leaving Guideline to Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder
http://www.ybrt.org/leave.html

Exceptional Leaving and Adjusting Resources site
http://www.bpdresources.com/end.html#Avoiding

TIPS: Planning to Leave
http://www.drirene.com/tips1.htm

Accepting Personal Responsibility
http://www.coping.org/growth/accept.htm

When they try to crawl back – Steps to Take
http://www.geocities.com/andifekete/worm.html

Abuse Site - Why She Stays
http://www.actabuse.com/whyshestays.html

Why Women Stay in Abusive Relationships
http://www.geocities.com/conscioustar/writing/abusive.html

Barriers to Leaving
http://www.edvp.org/AboutDV/barriers_to_leaving.htm

Learned Helplessness
http://www.unfetteredmind.com/articles/helplessness.php

Finances Often Keep Women in Abusive Relationships
http://www.nefe.org/news/news100301.html

One Woman's Story of Leaving (excellent links here!)
http://www.leavingabuse.com/

Letting Go - Inspirational
http://www.enter.net/~forester/lettingo.html

Path to a Brighter Future (mentions Borderline PDs, but effective for us too!)
http://www.bpd411.org/brighterfuture.html

Tips for a Faster Recovery
http://breakups101.com/feelings.html

Breaking Free from Co-dependence
http://www.toddlertime.com/interest/co-dependence.htm

Why Does She Stay: by Pam Butler
http://www.feministjournal.com/pam_butler.html

Why Doesn't She Leave?
http://www.womynkind.org/whyno.htm

I'm Out, Now What?
http://www.leavingabuse.com/out.html

The Psychology of Torture
http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/torturepsychology.html

Leaving Abusive Relationships: A Study of Catalytic FactorsAmy A. Bettencourt
http://www-mcnair.berkeley.edu:16080/97Journal/Bettencourt.html

Make full use of all benefits you're entitled to: Some examples:

WIC (Women, Infants, Children - food etc.) USDA (US Dept of Agriculture) Food
Stamp Program
http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/

Some keyword search terms: battered women financial assistance, aid, housing, legal.
.

.

femfree · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 665

http://nz.msnusers.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/youvedecidedtoleavenowwhat.msnw

That's great news! Probably the best decision you will ever make in the rest of your life!

Below are what the survivors on this site did in order to escape their abusive relationships or wish they had done with hindsight. We're not professionals, we're not experts, we're survivors of Ps or Ns, who at worst left with the shirts on our backs, and at best managed to keep what was ours. We never gained - you never do with a P/N relationship. Our stories are all different, yet all the same. There is one thing that our Ps tried to take but never did - they never stole our souls. We hope that you will find some information here to help you escape. You may be in an urgent situation and have to run right now, or you may have a little time. We have all been where you are now, and this page is designed to make it easier for those survivors who will be joining us on the "other side of P hell" soon. God Bless, You Can Do It.

FIRST THING YOU MUST CONSIDER IS YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY AND THAT OF YOUR CHILDREN. NEVER COMPROMISE YOUR WELFARE.

ESCAPING AN ABUSIVE PARTNER

If you are in a situation that is violent, do not hesitate to leave immediately, take your children and pets and go.
1] Phone Police for assistance, if you are the one leaving the home - go now. If he is being removed get police names and badge numbers, file statement/report. Be as cool, and calm as you can. It will be hard at this point, but the more dignified and collected we appear, the more credibility we have. Leave P/N to rant and rave.
2] Secure somewhere for you and your children to stay. Check out your local Domestic Violence Centre - they have a wealth of support available for leaving violent abusers/can find temporary accommodation if necessary/assist with legal support/some provide counseling, others just listen. Some shelters take pets. Most areas have financial help and job training services available to victims - find out what's available and go after it. That's why we pay taxes - to help you!
3]Get a Restraining Order as soon as possible, ask for No Contact. This will help to deter P from contacting you.
4]Leave when he is not there and you know to the best of your ability that he will not be back. DON'T CONFRONT.
5] Let someone you trust know where you will be - the fewer the better - for your safety and theirs.
6] Keep records; Journal all abuse, get injuries documented by a doctor (helps your case in legal matters). Take pictures of abuse, damage to home etc.
7] Make an escape bag, keep your documents, change of clothes, children’s items, address book, anything personal that you wish to take.
8] It is so important having left, to keep to NO CONTACT. Its the only way to ensure your safety and healing. You must make that decision honestly and mean it. "But I do" you say...

INTRODUCING SID - SEEMINGLY IRRELEVANT DECISIONS

Seemingly Irrelevant Decisions are the first ones of a series of decisions that we may choose to make, that lead us further and further into danger, and off the original path we set off on. Here’s an example:

You're on a diet and you're in the store, wanting to buy some fruit and vegetables. There are two ways to reach the fruit and veg counter. One is past the pet food, the other is past the sweets and chocolates. Which way are you going to go? IT IS AT THIS POINT THAT THE CHOICE YOU MAKE HERE WILL INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME OF YOUR ORIGINAL DECISION. Will you go past the pet food, get the fruit and veg, buy it and go home happy, or will you go past the sweets and chocolates and be seduced into buying a large bar "What's the harm, its only one bar", eat it on the way home, think "What the heck" and "Pig Out" all night, go to bed feeling fat and bloated. In the morning wake up feeling ashamed that we broke our diet - that drives us to the biscuit barrel and suddenly your dreams of dieting are going downhill in a handcart. Somewhere in the back of our mind, we knew if you went down the sweets aisle, you would give ourselves permission to buy that chocolate, but you overlook that fact and chose to go the "dangerous" way instead of the virtuous - We've all been there.

By making that one dangerous decision, we sabotaged our own efforts to achieve something we had wanted to do - diet. That Seemingly Irrelevant Decision, one little choice that leads further and further off our chosen path. Let’s see how that translates to Ps and Ns. Example:

You've left your P, you're settled into a new home, it’s been a short while, and everything is OK, but you do feel a bit lonely. You have a thought, you realise you've left your Birth Certificate behind. Obviously you're going to need it in your new life. This thought leads you onto thinking about P. Hmmm, he hasn't called, or tried to contact you, this makes you quietly angry and you begin to think about P. You have an idea, you'll call P and leave a message on the machine, so that he'll send the certificate to your mailbox. IT IS AT THIS POINT THAT THE CHOICE YOU MAKE HERE WILL INFLUENCE THE OUTCOME OF YOUR ORIGINAL DECISION. So, do you admit to yourself that you're feeling sad and upset, realise that you can get a copy Certified, and vow tomorrow will be better OR Do you ring P? P answers the phone. You ask P for Certificate. P tells you he loves you. P begs you to come home. You catch next cab/car/bus/train/plane and go back. P is great for a day or two. You are happily optimistic. Ps mask slips and he beats you for no apparent reason. Here we are again in the Dragon's Lair. Somewhere in the back of your head, you knew that you wanted to phone P, and that if you made an issue of the Certificate you would give yourself permission to phone.

"SID takes you off your chosen path, deeper and deeper into danger. "Seemingly Irrelevant Decisions" - Beware of them, they don't call them that for nothing.

You've taken SID on board - Now What?
If you do not level with yourself and honestly make the decision to stay away, you will not remain safe. If you contact him/her you will be back in their game and vulnerable to further, escalating abuse. Statistics prove that once a person has "accepted" abuse from their partner, the abuse escalates.

Basically how it works is this:
Once a partner has physically abused us, we have allowed him to cross our boundary. He then feels entitled to keep crossing whenever he likes. It takes more and more violence to satisfy him since he becomes appalled at us for our "weakness" and despises us for "allowing" him to treat us this way. This in turn makes him feel angry, and so he wants to abuse us further. It's a vicious circle - the cycle of abuse. He does not want to change this, although he may promise to. Why should he change? He has full control here, any change would mean life would get better for his victim, and worse for himself. Ps and Ns are not like that. They wont ever change. The victim has to change their behaviour to survive them, and it starts with NO CONTACT.

You need to "fall off the face of the earth" as far as the abuser is concerned.

Tell as few people as possible where you are - for their own safety as well as yours. That way there are few people for P or N to intimidate. The immediate thing the violent P or N will do is go searching for his/her "property. They will target anyone/anything/anywhere that they can find information about your whereabouts.
1] If you need to use a forwarding address for friends/family etc - use Post Restante mail. Don't use friends/family as mail drops because he will target them.
2]Alternately, if you establish contact with a Domestic Violence Centre, they will often allow you to have mail sent to their private address.
3] Get a new SIM card, take the old one out of your cell phone. If you need to leave it on ask yourself why? Is it really because of that "all important" call - or are you leaving your P a line of contact?
4] If you have time before you leave, wipe your computer files clean, take any info with you.
5] Inform any relatives, friends, etc whom he can contact that you have left P This way they will be able to defend themselves and you from P should he get in touch.
6] Put blocks on everything financial the moment you have somewhere to stay. This is very important if you can.
7] If you do not intend to return to your house after P has left, start writing to the authorities concerned with the home and take your name off bills. This way, you will not be liable for any debts P may run up.
8] If you wish to inform your children's schools that you have left the area, do not tell them where you are, tell them you will register the children when you are all safe.
9] If you have fled taking pets, make sure they are somewhere safe. Maybe with parents, friends, some Shelters Refuges accept pets until you are settled. Vets often have names of people offering temporary homes. Police may be able to recommend a kennels where they can stay until you are safe.
10] Be vigilant, learn to be security and surveillance conscious. Take notice of who lives around your area, who's car belongs to who. Who belongs to your new patch? Watch out for strangers, and be aware of anyone watching you. At this stage, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you - they may well be!
11] Take your personal documents if you possibly can - Birth Certificates/Drivers License/Child documents etc.
12] Be confident and positive and think ahead, try and save what's yours, stay within the law. THE ABOVE MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE IN VIOLENT SITUATIONS - IT MAY BE THAT YOU JUST HAVE TO RUN - IT CAN ALL BE SORTED OUT AFTERWARDS REMEMBER - SAFETY ABOVE EVERYTHING. If the police come, have a prepared list of what you need to take and they'll be there to help you.

IF YOUR XN/P IS REMOVED FROM YOUR HOME
This is difficult situation immediately, if P is violent it may be best to consider moving. If he is in prison, that would be the best time.
1] Contact Police, utilize all help and advice available from them. Take advice on security issues - turn that house into Fort Knox if you have to. Anything to be safe. Check out the services of the Police Domestic Violence Team, see if you can have alarms, panic buttons added to your home. Ask for help. Floodlight the house if you can afford it.
2] Change phone numbers
3] Change everything to do with your PC - don't rely on him not hacking.
4] If P is in prison, register with the line that lets you know when they are due out. http://www.vinelink.com/index.jsp
5] Consider changing the children's schools (School gates will be a target for P)
6] Do not answer door to P or anyone linked to P, make unknown callers produce ID or simply do not answer door. Be aware that P will use anyone and everyone in an attempt to get to you. You may not even recognise some of the people calling at your door.
7] Have friends or family stay with you if you are nervous. It can be very comforting to have their support and company.
8] Immediately alter bank accounts/credit cards/loans etc., anything to do with money, make sure you are totally P-proof because if you don't it will all disappear - if it hasn't already.
9] Keep personal documents safe - Birth Certificates/Drivers Licence/Childrens certs etc.
10] If you wish to move and YOU solely own the house, sell it with no realtor's sign.
11] Buy a pocket tape recorder and use it. If you have children and have to have contact, this will be vital.
12] Speak to the courts. Make it plain you want your file crossed with NO INFORMATION to be given out. It has been known for Ps to use other people to pretend to be you and get addresses etc.

”…inventory would reveal I had nothing to lose...the path was clear"

"This is all my own work! Lol”

”I DID get out alive. I AM A SURVIVOR and I no longer put up with their s***!

"We were targeted by this person and we didn’t know what was coming. We are getting out alive...we are worth it."

"Make up your mind. This is what you want to do. No looking back. RUNRUNRUN"

"I knew inside if I didn’t take the plunge, I was going to die"

"Everything will fall into place once you are away - Safety is the only priority here."

WE'LL SEE YOU WHEN YOU GET HERE!
Each Week Another Woman Escapes Domestic Violence

This page is dedicated to all survivors of Ps and Ns - you have great wisdom, and courage.

Thought-I-Was-Smarter · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Maryland

This is a GREAT thread. I haven't had a chance to be here for several days and I'm so glad I came here today! As I mentioned before I am planning to "break" with my NBF at the end of April. As it is my apartment, I will be asking him to leave. Any suggestions and/or recommendations are welcome! Also, I plan to read ALL of the websites referred to on this thread.

Legend · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Southeast USA

An earlier post of mine was removed due to copyright laws. I didn't realize I was breaking any laws as I referenced the text and posted the links to where the text could be found. I found this to be a learning experience as to what is allowed to be posted. For those of you who post copyrighted material, only a couple of sentences are allowed. Otherwise, you must contact the publisher or website to ask permission to use the information.

Anyway, the information I posted regarded a very important book titled, Splitting by William A Eddy. It is not for sale on Amazon and may only be purchased at the following site, http://www.bpdcentral.com/bks/spy.php.

Also on the site is an excerpt from Chapter 8 which describes the way to choose a lawyer and what questions to ask. The direct link to this information is http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/attorney/index.shtml.

For me, this was by far the best $25 I spent. In fact, buy one for yourself and lawyer. The information contained in this book is extremely valuable. Take time to read the reviews.

Hugs,
Legend
_________________
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

"Realize your personal legend." Paulo Coelho

paperbagprincess · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 23

thank you for making this a sticky. I need this information and it is very helpful. I am in the beginning stages of the lawyer part and knowing some of what to ask is very helpful.

Also, I am soooo angry with mr. stbxnh that I want to yell at him that we are finally getting enough courage to leave and he should just F off. He uses those terms to us a lot, just wanting to throw it back in his face. I keep going over in my head that I can't tip my hand to the N and your board helps to continually remind me of that. I don't want to slip up now.

pbp

iwantout · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7

All of this information is extremely helpful. I have been trying to find a way to end the disasterous relationship I am in with my N. He ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS, manipulates in ways I myself couldn't even describe because when he is not doing his thing I realize how abnormal it really is. It's almost as if I lose all rational thinking when I am with him. I make all of these plans and choices as to how I am going to end it and then it's like POOF they all disappear when he starts talking his talk. I often wonder if he senses what I am about to do because he always brings up things that he has done to others in the past that he feels has wronged him. I am sure he is trying to manipulate and scare me into staying with him. He recently went through a divorce (he was married when we got together) and the way he treats his exwife seems absolutely horrendous to me. Of course he blames her for it all. Another thing is when I seem to be getting close to ending it he manipulates me into allowing him to borrow money. I, being a single mother, cut it close financially as it is and he knows that whatever I loan him I have to have back. He has always paid me back but it is sporadically. I think he spaces it out to keep me hanging on a little longer. I guess right now I am just venting because I started out just to reply at how helpful this sight has been so far in helping me realize what has to happen. I just have to muster up the strength and will power to do it. As someone else spoke earlier I too feel as if I am addicted and he is my drug.
I am also fairly certain that he is tracking my internet activity which makes posting this rather scary.

pinkybubbles · Guest

I dont think you can plan to leave a N or a P- if you know its the right thing to do then just get up and go- there is never a good time with these people to leave- its best to just do it and deal with things after as they occur......do it before they pull you in any further.....

lemondroppr · Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 1427

Iwantout:

Go to this site and download their free spyware software. It will find tracking software too, I believe.

http://www.lavasoftusa.com/products/ad-aware_se_personal.php

You can scan your computer right on-line as well, if you don't want to install software. Try http://www.trendmicro.com/spyware-scan/ or find another source by searching for free spyware scan and removal.

amybrad1971 · Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 114

We are currently planning on getting out. I live with my Nfather. We are saving as much as we can...planning to have at least 2 months worth of living money...and I want NC .... we will lose EVERYTHING...but I think its for the best. We will be starting over from scratch and this site is helping me decide if we do it while my father is away on a two month vacation or if we tell him we are moving. I am thinking we do it while he is gone and leave no forwarding address..money is not everything. My father is a violent man.
There will be no threatening to move. We either do it...or we don't.

I thank GOD for this site!
And welcome any stories or advise from those of you who have moved away and made it a NC thing.

Gina · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:15 am Post subject:

For what it's worth. I figured out how to get my N/P to leave me and file for a divorce. That way, he can't keep saying "You did it Baby"...And throwing it up in my face!!! Now he has only himself to blame for his misery.
He pretends to be happily married, but I think it's a crock. They move every two years. They've move 10 times since we got divorced. Does that sound normal and "HAPPY"?? In AA, they call that "Taking a Geographic." People do all that moving when they think the "Grass will be greener on the other side of the fence." Butttttt, it never is, because we take ourselves with us when we move. I had to work on myself for years and still am, in order not to be attracted to another sick person. I can say, most of the time, generally speaking, I am happy with myself.

Thank God for all of you and for this board.

Love,
Gina Laughing

Legend · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 124 Location: Southeast USA

Hey,

A similar question, http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=2062, was asked on the divorce/custody board. There are several posts that contain important information. I'll post two of them here in separate messages. The first is by deliveredin2006.

Okay. I'm going to be blunt here - no offense intended - just a little Divorcing the N 101.

You want to keep things peaceful for the kids. Ain't gonna happen. You are at war. He's already set the battle lines. You already know he's going to screw you but I can guarantee he's going to do things far lower than you'd ever imagine.

Start gathering evidence of his abuse. Does he rage or just demean you? Start carrying a hidden tape recorder and try to get some of abuse on tape. If nothing else, those close to you will recognize what you're going through and that it is abuse. Hopefully, dependening on the laws of your state, you might be able to use it in court. If he's ever hit you and you have evidence take it and hide it at a friend's house. It's documented proof that the courts listen to.

Start copying important papers and hiding them at friend's houses. Copies (originals are better) of kids birth certificates, SSN, insurance and financial documents etc. Have any hierlooms, jewelly etc that are important to you? Hide them now and let him fight you for them later (see Summer's posts on her XN donating their marital property).

Go to several different legal consults. Ask around at domestic violence shelters or abuse support groups about who the shark is in your area. Let him/her know that you need an agressive lawyer who calls you back - you will probably be high maintenence since the N will abuse you through litigation and defy every court order. Read up on the custody laws in your state. Where do you live? Also, save a pile of money. My divorce was over 17 grand and Summer and NewWings are over 25 and Summer isn't even divorced yet. (Her Ns a real peach - I'd suggest reading back posts from Summer and NewWings - they're quite an education).

Okay - here is where I mean no offense and don't mean to be hurtful. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that this man already has another source of supply lined up. Do not be surprised when he moves in with his girlfriend (you might already know that he's cheating) or flaunt his new soulmate. I will bet money on the fact that he's slinking around behind your back dropping hints to people that your everything from unstable, to a drunk, a hooker, a lesbian, to Satan incarnate. You will find out who your real friends are and they probably aren't going to be his family. Garner your support network quietly and don't let him get to your family and friends first. You will lose some of them anyway.

Try and find out as much as you can about your current financial situation. Ns are notorious for racking up debt behind everyones back. You share a business? Get a new job because when the crap hits the fan you are not going to want to be anywhere near him.

File first. That gives you the psychological edge. Don't move out of your house if you can help it but if you can't, don't leave your kids. That will kill you in custody later.

Read all you can by Dr. Vaknin.

Chances are your kids already know you're being abused - they're in therapy for some reason, right? (That wasn't a put-down - good for you for getting your kids help when they needed it). Are they being abused too? Can their therapist testify to that? Remember that your N will abuse these kids, set standards they cannot possibly live up to and leave them emotinally disabled. Any N free moment is a good moment for them. Fight hard - even if you get 40/50 instead of 50/50, if you get more time than the N, it's worth it. Don't be shocked if he files for full custody and tries to paint you as unfit. It's par for the course with them.

I'm sure there is a lot more that others can add but here is at least a beginning.

Hugs,
Legend
_________________
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

"Realize your personal legend." Paulo Coelho