Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

carolynms · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 1 Location: Canada

Our son is 24. For the last 3 years he has lied constantly, stolen from us (money from the house and our bank account, electronic equipment, wine etc). He has also stolen money and other things from his older brothers, his girlfriend and probably all his friends as he seems to have none left. On the first occasion, he stole from a stranger, was caught and almost went to jail, except we were there to help. Now I think that was a big mistake. I just cannot understand what happened. He was always a sweet and very loving child, and never, ever a discipline problem at home or school. At college, though, he started to find it tough to focus and was diagnosed ADHD. He dropped out, started work, and then the problems started. We are at our wits end. He is back at college and living at home because whenever he moves out it is a complete disaster. His brothers say we should kick him out. We haven't told them everything he has done. At times he shows remorse and gets very depressed. He is not abusive or cruel. He is charming, fun to be around (most of the time), witty, well-read and clever. He does smoke weed, and has tried cocaine but was not addicted and is not doing it now. The other day he said he thought there was something wrong with him because he didn't seem able to stop doing things that hurt people. I have been reading a lot since then. Is he a P? I cannot believe there is no treatment. Thanks for listening. Any help or advice gratefully received.
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Thanks for helping. Carolynms

Matilda · Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1841

Oh Carolyn, this is horrible. I don't have children. I lived and was married to a psychopath and that was bad enough. But what you describe is out of my range of experience. I will try and follow up this post with a link to some information for you. I hope others in situations similar to yours will post soon. If not, try the main forums - they are more active there.

One thing for sure, please know you are not alone in trying to heal from relationship with, and in trying to understand this baffling personality disorder. You also might want to try to pose your questions to Dr. Sam Vaknin in the "ask Dr. Vaknin forum". He's a long time member and respected contributor here, and I am sure he will direct you quickly to more intormation that might help you.

I am sorry for the reason you are here, but glad you have reached out.

welcome

Matilda
(admin)
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"I used to have an open mind, but my brains kept falling out."-Steven Wright

Matilda · Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1841

Coping with the Adolescent Psychopath

"There are times when parenthood seems nothing
but feeding the hand that bites you."
Peter De Vries

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My 15-year-old stepson has Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD). However, until he is 18 years old he cannot be “officially” diagnosed nor treated as such. Consequently, he is not being treated at all. Not that that makes much difference. There does not seem to be any hope for him. Everything I read says it is basically incurable and untreatable.

I was the first one to realize the truth when he was about 12. Having been, in the past, a practicing psychotherapist, certain behaviors caught my attention; lack of appropriate emotional response, unwillingness to take on any responsibility, ability to manipulate, lack of social skills and immaturity, lying and blaming. I hoped it was something else. But, as time passed, it became undeniable. Finally, we took him for intensive testing. Off the record, our suspicions were confirmed. On the record he was diagnosed with “conduct disorder”. Over time, his behavior has worsened.

He is now textbook ASPD with the exception of displaying cruelty to animals (although he cannot be left alone with my small grandchildren, even for a few minutes, because he will hurt them if he is). Since they cannot make an official diagnosis of ASPD until he is 18 they refuse to "officially" treat him as such. He smokes pot, fails every subject in school and refuses to do schoolwork, steals anything we don't lock down, lies constantly, blames everyone else, displays strange sexual behaviors, cons anyone who will buy it, refuses to obey any rules at school or at home, and has already been arrested 3 times. He honestly does not believe rules of any kind apply to him. He sees any attempt to place limitations on his behavior as a challenge to prove he cannot be controlled. He has no real emotions (doesn't even grasp the concept) and seems to truly not comprehend there is a problem. As long as no one crosses him or requires anything from him he is charming, witty and pleasant. Otherwise he is either acting like we are the problem children he must tolerate or he becomes angry and verbally aggressive. We feel like his prisoners most of the time.

There are other, less threatening associated problems; poor memory, poor planning skills, inability to project consequences to behavior, boredom due to bland emotional life, leading to thrill seeking. He does not comprehend the connection between work and reward and believes he will succeed in life simply because he wants to. He believes anything he wants is “owed” to him. He is incapable of comprehending “others” as separate from himself and is oblivious to their wants or needs. He knows no boundaries and does not recognize the rights of others nor respect them. He doesn’t understand why others find his behavior intolerable. The hardest thing we had to accept is that this child is incapable of loving. He does not love us. Not in any true sense.

Initially, no one wants to accept he is ASPD. We have been through numerous therapists. They waste a great deal of our money and time while we wait for them to finally come to the same conclusion everyone else eventually comes to. Then they refuse to attempt to treat him. We have gone through the same thing with his schools. He is the master at identifying and latching on to a co-dependant teacher of counselor and exploiting them most of the school year before we finally get the call of resignation and agreement that he is indeed ASPD. We have repeated this over and over. We begin every school year and every first counseling session the same way; begging for them to address this for what it is as opposed to trying everything else that has already been tried unsuccessfully. We usually have put up with the attitude that they know better. We have been told they are sure he does have emotions, he just suppresses them. We have been assured they can get to the bottom of it all. Most of the time they are a little arrogant about it. Most of the time they treat us as if we are horrible for believing such a thing about our son. But, eventually, they admit defeat. Then they act like something must be wrong with us to have birthed such a twisted kid. (In fact, he is adopted).

We have managed to learn a few things that may be helpful to other parents of ASPD kids.We have learned:

the definition of true powerlessness. We cannot “fix” him or help him.
it is not our fault or a failure in out parenting abilities.
to deal with him unemotionally. ASPD’s find emotional people scary. We also refrain from using “feeling” words in our conversation as these words mean nothing to him.
to never show any real depth of feelings for him beyond being pleasant because he interprets this as weakness and will exploit it. We only deal with him matter-of-factly.
to not try to project our own feelings or those we believe he should have on him. The best he can do is imitate those emotions for the purpose of exploitation.
to be absolutely consistent. He sees inconsistency as weakness and will exploit it. Consequences must be swift, immediate and without emotion and without fail.
to describe possible consequences only in what he has to gain or lose. He has no concept of right or wrong except in relationship to his own discomfort or pleasure. Guilt is beyond his abilities. Shaming him only annoys him.
to not waste our time explaining why we must say “no”. Our explanations only provide him an opportunity to look for a loop-holes or argue in an attempt to wear us down.
not to expect him to learn much from experience. He won’t.
to act the same toward him when he is being charming as when he is not. We try to maintain a consistently even response at all times.
to acknowledge but not reward good behavior. If we reward it, he sees it as a new method of scamming.
to suspect underlying motives to sudden charm or helpfulness. There always is one.
to avoid feeling sorry for him. It makes us weak and he exploits it.
to be tough and to not allow others to malign us for our "harsh attitudes".
to remember we cannot “hurt his feelings.” Sometimes harsh words are what will get his attention, at least temporarily.
to deal with him with our own best interest at heart because nothing we do will change him or his behavior. We can only protect ourselves and others.
Although this is not his fault and he is mentally ill, he is also dangerous to those around him and their protection must come first.
to accept that this child is a predator. He will use and abuse anyone to get what he wants without any concern for the victim.
to understand that, although he appears to be, he is not evil. He is only concerned with doing and getting what he wants. He is oblivious to the harm it is causing others.
to love a child with ASPD can be deadly both to them and to us.
to disassociate from love for him as much as possible for our own survival. We have had to except he will, most likely, end up in prison or dead and can only hope he doesn't hurt too many along the way.
we can only do the best we can because there will be very little help for us along the way and probably none for him. We cannot possibly expect others to understand. Unless you have been there, it’s almost impossible to comprehend. More than once we have had to deal with others who see us as the monsters. More than once we have had to defend what little sanity our methods provide against “caring” people who want to come to our sons ”defense” , projecting their own emotions on to him.

We are sure he will leave us as soon as he can. We stand very much in his way of what he wants to do and refuse to cater to him. We won’t try to stop him. Socio-paths rarely maintain a relationship with anyone they cannot use. He will move on to the next “sucker” who will support him. It seems the best we can hope for is he will end up as a con-man as opposed to a rapist or murderer. We have grave concerns that he will be released on society and probably do much damage to others before (if ever) he is stopped. We also fear what will happen if he marries and/or has children. We feel helpless to protect whatever future victims he may encounter. We can only protect our family and ourselves.

I know this isn’t what you want to hear. I know you would rather hear that something you could do would make a difference. I wish I could say that is the case. But, so far, it has not proven to be so. I have not tried to give you hope. I have tried to give you strength and courage and to let you know you are not the bad one and you are not alone. Most of all, I have tried to share the tools that have helped make our lives with a sociopath more manageable; a way to survive until he is old enough to go. A day we are looking forward to.

...elektra, stepmother
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"I used to have an open mind, but my brains kept falling out."-Steven Wright