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Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group
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disengaging
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1341
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Spiritual Abuse and "The Great Commission" |
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| Quote: | Reasons Christians Commit Spiritual Abuse
For the most part, spiritual abuse is committed by those who sincerely love Jesus, who believe the Bible to be the Word of God and who want to win lost souls for Jesus. Hence, spiritual abuse can often be found, as Ronald Enroth points out, in churches that are doctrinally sound, conservatively Christian, thoroughly Biblical, and zealously maintaining the fundamentals of the Faith. There are several reasons why Christian people of good will and a sincere desire to share Jesus can inflict serious harm and injury upon others in the Name of Jesus. Lack of Empathy. Empathy is the ability to perceive, to understand, to sense, to feel what another person is experiencing. Unfortunately, in witnessing for Jesus many evangelicals talk to people, not with people. It is impossible to truly talk with anyone about Jesus, or anything else for that matter, without knowing the other person. Authentic ministry is based upon knowing a person. There is no point in claiming that Jesus is the answer, when you have not heard the question. A physician who prescribes medicine without knowing the patient is likely to injure the patient. In like manner, evangelicals who try to minister without knowing the sheep in an empathic manner will most likely injure it.
Narcissism. The reason that many Christians have a problem with developing empathy skills is because they have a problem with narcissism. Narcissists are not necessarily bad people. Narcissism simply means that, for whatever reason, the person's only point of reference in life is himself. For the narcissist only his thoughts, his feelings, his perceptions are fully real. For him the thoughts, feelings, and perceptions of others are less real. In the religious context, narcissists simply assume that what they think God thinks, and what they believe is Bible-based. They take it for granted that any idea that jumps into their heads is from the Holy Spirit and that they are only following the promptings of the Holy Spirit whenever they decide to do anything. The fact that other people may see their words as being less than holy, their motives as being less than pure, and their actions as being hurtful and injurious never occurs to them. When you believe that you are right and righteous, then all that you say and do is right and righteous. Any thought to the contrary never enters the picture. - Major Scott Nicloy |
Although I do agree that "religious abuse" is often the end result, I disagree as to these being the "reasons" it is committed.
I believe the true motivation is what many Christians term "The Great Commission" which is found at the end of the Gospel of Mathew 28:18-20 as follows:
| Quote: | | And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. |
Although there are some exceptions, I believe the majority of Christians who do this honestly and sincerely believe they are following the above instructions--the "Great Commission".
As a Christian, there's nothing I enjoy better than discussing and debating theology--in the proper context, in forums specifically designed for such purposes. I don't go to accounting seminars to discuss surfing--there's a time and place for everything.
So I debate my religious beliefs--primarily on atheist websites, where most other Christians are quickly jumped on, flamed and promptly banned. I talk to some of these Christians on other websites where they complain to me about the "unfairness" of how they were treated and honestly don't understand why they were "banned" while I'm basically accepted, even though I'm not always very "nice".
But I've also "done my homework" and have read and studied their literature, have a good working knowledge of the books written by various atheist authors--and can debate, and refute their arguments without having to resort to the use of a single biblical quote.
So if they tell me they're a "pastarian" I know the parody they're referring to and ask if they've got their pirate ship ready yet to bring the ministry of the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" to the world, or if they make reference to IPU, yeah, I know all about the goddess of the Invisible Pink Unicorn, who they claim they logically know she must be invisible, because they can't see her! OK, so, "Bless her tiny hooves", and can we now get real?
Once you've shown you've taken enough of an interest in another's beliefs to have actually studied and understood them, then yes, it's possible to start a serious debate on the real issues, intelligently and with basic civility--at least that is until yet another well-meaning, Christian shows up and attempts to join in by using biblical quotes, especially those implying they're all going to hell, at which point, an all-out "flame" war ensues! I can not begin to count the number of times this has happened and it completely baffles me how Christians can not seem to understand why atheists would find this insulting.
It's self-defeating too, because all it accomplishes is to piss atheists off and shuts them right down! I know they honestly believe they are simply following the instructions of "The Great Commission." They're just not going about it in the right way.
Why do I bother and why should I care?
Well, it's what I call the "Santa Claus argument". You see, I don't go to websites to debate the existence of Santa Claus anymore than I would go to debate the boogeyman because I know they don't exist and of that I have absolutely no doubt. They are fictional characters, and it would be pointless and silly to debate whether a character exists who you know to be fictional. Anyone stupid enough not to know this, I wouldn't bother wasting my breath to try to convince them otherwise.
But anyone who actually wants to put up a website where people come desiring to debate the existence of God can't be all that sure, so the ones they must really trying to convince is themselves.
And I've found a lot of the people I've met on these sites turned to atheism as a direct result of "religious abuse", former "cult" members, those who were abused by parents or religious leaders/members for actions not in accordance with some specific doctrine--for example, my husband was "disfellowshipped" and "shunned" due to his alcoholism. Others in his church for fornication, adultery, or being gay. My husband never lost his faith as a result, but many others did. I can understand why, but feel they may be focusing their pain and anger over being "rejected" in the wrong direction--basically "taking it out on God" by turning to atheism.
Do I actually expect to gain "converts"? Not really, just to give them a different perspective--to let them know that just because other people may have rendered judgement against them, doesn't mean they necessarily should feel the need to reject God and embrace atheism, there are other options. There are other Christian viewpoints which hopefully they may find comfort in, rather than condemnation. Whatever made those "other people" presume they are entitled to "speak for God" anyway?
Aside from which, without 2 sides, there is NO debate, is there?
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livedthroughit
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 947
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I think the number of Christians who commit spiritual abuse is a very small percentage. However, the effect of spiritual abuse is profound and devastating.
I would also say for the record that just because my faith was rocked by spiritual abuse, it doesn't mean for a minute that I have ever stopped believing. It just means for the moment, my religious worship is not something I can share freely with others as I once did. I hope to get to that point, but it's a long process. I can share my beliefs with my d and I can share them with people one-on-one, I just can't seem to walk into church right now. I feel like a fraud for not wanting to be there and I wonder who else standing by me is a fraud also.
Two abusers here really have affected me. I wish they didn't and I wish I could just snap my fingers and get over it, but I can't. One is the ExN -- his own mother has stated that he has been "saved" so many times, she lost tract. Yet he can amazingly gain instant trust with people just because he claims to be a man of God. A man addicted to porn, who has committed unspeakable crimes, and who hides his homosexual tendencies to most others. I remember when he decided he wanted to reunite with me, I told him no, but he wouldn't accept that. Instead he started showing up at church functions, telling anyone who would listen that he wanted to make things right with God, to be a family with me and d, but I refused. He would pick fights with me in the church, in the middle of Sunday school class, and scream out loud that I wasn't allowing him to see his d (not that he had ever really exercised his parenting time that he had). We went to court, he would show up to court with a Bible in his hand. It didn't matter what unspeakable action he had committed, he would try to convince all that because he was a Christian, it was okay. When I confronted him for inappropriately touching d, he told me "In Sunday school, there is a picture of Jesus loving on the children."
Second abuser is not someone I knew well at all personally but his serial killings in my town haunted me throughout my childhood. When they caught him years later, he was the president of his church. I have a coworker who went to his church. He was my coworker's spiritual adviser. Imagine that. The bogeyman was a "man of God."
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Lukky
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2407
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ditto to what Tilda said!! Thanks Disingaging.
_________________
'The Best reaction is no reaction'
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livedthroughit
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 947
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I got on such a tangent, I forgot to say that I agree with disengaging.
At least, on a personal level, I don't believe that spiritual abuse is some sort of accident by people with good intentions. It's misuse of religion and many times deliberate.
Just as my current situation - if I put ExN on the phone with our 6 year old d, he tells her that he prays for mommy's soul - and he knows I am a believer. This is abuse to her and I both. Why would you tell your 6 year old that you think her mommy's going to hell just because you are angry at her mother?
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disengaging
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 1341
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | if I put ExN on the phone with our 6 year old d, he tells her that he prays for mommy's soul - and he knows I am a believer. This is abuse to her and I both. |
Hi Livedthrough,
Yeah, I agree, that's really only an underhanded way of trying to convince your daughter that "mommy is going to hell" and that's serious religious abuse--and absolutely unexcusable! Of course it's deliberate and I'm sure he imagines he's being quite clever.
It's also complete hypocracy. I don't use biblical quotes when debating with atheists, but with those who profess to be Christians? Those who condemn others using the Bible as their basis apparently don't think that Jesus was talking to THEM when he said, "Judge not that ye shall not be judged."
| Quote: | | Why would you tell your 6 year old that you think her mommy's going to hell just because you are angry at her mother? |
Because he cares more about his own pride than he does about the welfare of his own daughter.
You may wish to provide the moron with the guidance found in Mathew 18:4-7 "Truely I say unto you that unless you turn and become as a little child, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever humbles himself like this child, shall be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. But whosoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and be drowned in the depth of the sea."
Myself though, I'd just haul his pompous little ass into arbitration to discuss his abuse of your daughter for use of that low-life "parental alienation" ploy.
Oh, and of course you realize he's not a true Christian, for him it's just an act he puts on for the benefit of the public--to make himself look good in the eyes of others and gain power in the church. Doubt his performance is winning him any "brownie points" with God.
| Quote: | | I just can't seem to walk into church right now |
Oh, please don't worry about that--going to church does not necessarily make you a better Christian, in fact, the bible actually admonishes against going to church, if you're only doing so for the benefit of other people. From Mathew 6:1-6
"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synaogues and streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly I say to you, they [already] have their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners that they may be seen by men. Truely I say to you, they [already] have their reward. But when you pray, go to your room and shut the door and pray to your father in who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
| Quote: | | Second abuser is not someone I knew well at all personally but his serial killings in my town haunted me throughout my childhood. When they caught him years later, he was the president of his church. I have a coworker who went to his church. He was my coworker's spiritual adviser. Imagine that. The bogeyman was a "man of God." |
That monster was NOT a "man of God". As you can see from the above, God was on to him before he was even born!
Again, many hugs!
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