Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

I was reading the current topics here and it made me think of something that I wanted to ask, but thought it'd be better to start a new thread.

On the subject of NM's calling you everyday...my NM used to expect me to call her at least once a week. Here's some background information. When I stopped calling as often, she became really angry and started treating me worse. That always baffled me because I thought it was a completely counterproductive thing to do. How was that going to make me want to speak with her more often??? Then the threats began and the manipulation. She started working on my kids. She and my father were always badmouthing me to my son. They tried to devalue my daughter by showing her she wasn't worth as much as my brother's 2 girls. When I found out about both accounts, that was the last time either of my children were allowed to be alone with my parents, both of whom were N's. I know they could tell my family and I were detaching from them and it really angered them.

Did your NM's become uncharacteristically sweet to you and try to make you fell guilty, in an effort to make you keep calling them? OR, like mine, did you receive harsh punishment for your show of independence.

My mother never liked me. She frightened the bejeezers out of me. She ruled with an iron hand and sharp tongue. There was no sweetness or light from that woman. I tried to walk the straight and narrow line so I didn't anger her and risk feeling her wrath. My NF paid little attention to his family, including my mother until she went off on the warpath with him, or he needed her to dote on him like she was his mother!

Anyone have that kind of situation? If not, what was your's like?

Riccy

sheenie2000 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 169 Location: North Carolina

When something new happens and out of the ordinary it frightens the N. They get very very upset and angry until you give in. Usually children dont want their parents even more mad, so they give in just to calm the storm. Then the situation goes back to normal, in your case you back to calling her weekly. Which is exactly what she wants you to do and what you end up doing. The N is then happy but then you are back feeling awful, worthless, hurt, angry and with your mouth shut cuz you cant take the rages and out of control behavior by her.

You just have to keep standing strong and ignore the behavior. Because what you are doing is NOT wrong, and do not feel guilty about it. Your N wants you to feel guilty and make it like you are wrong.
_________________
"Happiness is not an accident. Nor is it something you wish for. Happiness is something you design." - Jim Rohn

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

Hi Sheenie.

I' haven't had contact with my mother in over a year. The thing is...we are adults, not children. Our NP's obviously don't see us as either. We are merely their possessions. As an adult, I would have expected my NM to understand that I did not need her to survive any longer, and by not calling I was already sending out signals that I wasn't going to just stay and take it. She should have adjusted her "tactics" in trying to entice me to stay. Instead she did as you so well described. She tried to show me how angry I made her, and hoped I'd be intimidated as I was when I was a child. (It gives me great satisfaction to be able to state that "her tactic didn't work"!)

What did your mother do when you initiated NC? Was she livid like mine, or did she try to sweetly guilt you back into submission?

Riccy

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

Hi.....my nm tried the guilt crap....she got furious with me, so mad that I thought she was going to hit me. I think she was so mad because for once I would not bend to her will. Later when she calmed down, she called once and I picked up. I guess I was hoping, but all I got from her was how could you be such a bad kid. My response was very calm, I said well I guess you told me, thankyou for that and I hung up.

justmee

kikisand · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 67

In my situation Nmom is icky, icky sweet - just love and hearts and all. I know it is all a screen.

Originally, after NC last summer, she said something to the effect of "I don't know what we could have done wrong, but, 'sorry'." Didn't work for me. Then she started into "I would NEVER have done this to MY PARENTS." Whatever....

Now, she emails dear H, which is funny because she and Dad were the ones who berated HIM THREE TIMES last summer at their home. Nutty, crazy, insane, ludicrous people.

And, funny enough, dear H emails her back with tidbits on our life (I make sure he doesn't tell her too much) and I am SURE that is enough for her - enough to spread around to the people in her life to make sure she looks like the doting mother, mother-in-law and step-grandmother.

Makes me so sick, I could almost puke right here on the keyboard. God, I hate that woman.
_________________
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

sheenie2000 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 169 Location: North Carolina

Yea we are adults but sometimes certain situations even without my mom here, I revert back to being a child or I feel like on.

I felt like my mom thought I was her slave as all of us have felt that way I'm sure bc they just want the NS. But I also felt like she thought I was an extention of her or I was HER. She wouldnt get why I didn't like red like she did. She didn't understand why I didn't like oranges bc she did. She would get livid about these things. It was really weird.

When I initiated no contact or tried to implement boundaries, she got livid. She would get soooo mad. But then when I actually stopped calling her, she would leave messages and say so sweetly, oh i miss you don't u miss me? In this sickingly sweet fake voice. Then if you ever call back or make a random phone call they always have to add in how horrible you are for not calling and what kind of daughter you are.
_________________
"Happiness is not an accident. Nor is it something you wish for. Happiness is something you design." - Jim Rohn

wownowfree · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 256

Riccy,

N's are so common and predictable in their behavior, it's scary. My mother got nasty. Her rage showed through. When she realized the anger and the pity calls weren't working, she got very angry. You know, beneath the "sugar" is always rage. They only use the "sugar" when it works. If it doesn't work, they will get darker.

Like your mom, my mother always subtly compared my kids with my brother's kids. She did this to annoy me because I lived much further away from her than my brother.

when I went No Contact, I'm embarassed to admit, I still hoped that she would see all that she had lost and would change and apologise to me. Ha!

Last Halloween, I may have shared this, but my mother sent my children "gifts" in the mail. They were t-shirts with a fake Witness protection logo with the saying "You don't know me" on the front of the tees. My children are only 7 and 8 and of course she was sending a message to me, in effect giving me the finger. Ironically, this was the last straw for me. I thought I was wrong to cut my children off from her, since they had a relationship with her. Now I know that I did the right thing. I have no guilt about NC at all. She was willing to use my children in order to hurt me. This proved to me she doesn't care about my kids at all. Unfortunately, the rest of my dysfunctional family are on her side, thinking I'm the mean one.

wownowfree

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

It makes sense that they turn darker when the "sugar" doesn't work. I've seen my mother use both. I used to believe her moods were authentic. Now I know differently. So, it is rage at the core of everything?

My father was the "charmer" type N. The sexual N. It was harder to see his rage because he used to capture his audience with his charm and whit. I walked into a drug store one day, and he was at the pharmacy with all the girls behind the counter laughing and talking to him. He was in his 70's and not in good health, but you wouldn't know it by looking at him there. I was dumbfounded. Funny thing, when he noticed me there, he suddenly stopped talking and his demeanor changed. Apparently I had ruined his act.

I have seen and heard his rages, though. I knew they were there, lurking beneath. Not many outside our family knew him the way we did. That's the truth with all N's, of course. My NM wore her anger close to the surface. I don't know which was more frightening to me...seeing her upset, or seeing her "acting" sweetly. The "sweet act" was so rarely seen, that it unnerved me more. She saved that one for strangers.

Riccy

sheenie2000 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 169 Location: North Carolina

Riccy: I know what you mean, I dont know what was more frightening the sweet or the mean act. How she would be so nice to strangers and friends. They would never know behind closed doors her behavior. It would make my blood boil how kind she was to everyone.

I wanted so badly for everyone to know how evil and cruel she was, but they would never know. It's like this secret that we still can't share bc others wouldnt believe it.
_________________
"Happiness is not an accident. Nor is it something you wish for. Happiness is something you design." - Jim Rohn

oaktree · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 363 Location: Minnesota

Hi Riccy-these stages sound familiar?

the confusion-why am I unhappy?
the "aha" moment
the pain and sadness and anger
the flooding of past experiences (how it all happened)-with panic attacks
the "bad" talk
the letting go
the relaxing and affirming i am here and on the ground

Currently am going through the last 5 depending on the day and the moment.

Trying to be patient. Therapist bet me he would write me a check for $1000 if I am not less angry, more self affirming, and more relaxed in one year. I am holding him to it. Thats quite a bet! I cant lose!

Cool

oaktree · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 363 Location: Minnesota

oh, and the Nsis did this:

first denied
then terrorized and raged on me one last time
then projected and blamed
then ignored my boundaries
then rationalized and scapegoated
then she undermined my accomplishments one last time
then she criticized
then she slipped in underhanded comments about how little I mattered to her
then she minimized, discounted and ignored my opinions and experiences.
then she accused
then she tried to make me look crazy
then she tried to smear me to other relatives

AND NOW I AM FREE!!!! Now I just need to keep believing that and heal my
SELF!!!
_________________
Once You Have Been Bitten By A Snake, You Are Very Cautious, Even Of A Coiled Rope.

The Dalai Lama

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Hi Riccy,
This is a good topic that I keep wanting to learn from so I can be strong.
My mother is being sweet and "putting up" with any boundaries I set. She thinks it is only matter of time. I will calm down and I will go back and she will be on top of the world again.
There is a constant guilt/manipulation to every other words she speaks.
For example, if I do not call she makes me feel guilty about it as if I have done something really really wrong.
If I do not go visit her on a long weekend, she will say: "oh, this week you are not visiting AGAIN!" Wait, why do I need to drop every thing off and run visit her as I have done in the past. No, I am not visiting; I am spending this time to take care of myself.
My mother is playing games. She can not let go.
I feel proud of myself for not confronting her about anything. Life moves on and that's that. I know who she is so there will be no more giving her benefit of the doubt. I have spent 37 years trying to be the perfect daughter.
She told me "just because you are buying gift on Mother's day does not make you a good daughter."
Guess what? She is not getting a gift that I actually paid for this mother's day. She is getting a phone which I got for free when I upgraded my own phone.
It's a Pretty Lady time now. I am not sure why I have ignored me for so long.

I know Riccy, you understand each word I type.

(((((cyber-hugs)))))
PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

Riccy,
I am sorry for all the pain you have gone trough.
I know it is so much harder when you have childeren. But I know you survive, because you are so strong. They are weak, but it takes a strong person to keep it in sane. Live your life the best you can and treat yourself like a jule.
So we can say in the end:
"I got here, I lived my life like a shinning star and I died with no regrets."
That's what I want.
Smile

PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

It is therapeutic to me, the way we all sound like we were raised by the same parents! LOL.

Sheenie, my NP's followed the same path that your sis did. I think the operative word in their thinking is "SMEAR". Talk about betrayal...

I don't think any of us would be battling with self doubts if it weren't for the smear campaigns.

Again, I admonish all ACON's to remember, we are not dealing with NORMAL behavior from our NP's. We don't think the way they do. So, when they SMEAR us, don't think of rebuttals or respond in a defensive manner. Let our intuitions sound the alarm! They people are lying, back stabbing, under handed vultures. They will stop at nothing. Unfortunately, they happened to be our parents, but it's not up to them, what happens to us as adults. You can't respond to them (mentally) as if you are having a healthy debate with a normal person. That is self-defeating behavior on our part. Respond to them for what they are. I think we all know what that is...and the best response would be to CUT OFF ATTENTION (or N.S.) which is their life blood.

If you want revenge, play with that thought a little. Wink

Riccy

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 488

My experience of detaching was:
Anger/rage
Sadness
Mourning
Relief

With a whole lot of confusion and denial thrown in. I still go through these stages as I grapple with my mind but clarity of mind is improving slowly but surely. After I left home I went through an extended period of paranoid depression and hopelessness. As for my parents response, NF couldn't understand my reaction. My mother turns everything against me, it is all my fault: "you've lost your mind, you need to go to the doctor, you're schizoid" etc.