Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Summer · member Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 928

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Sailor2bill · member Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

Summer, all I can think of on the spur of the moment is to list everything you have posted here in the past, regarding the N house. List the wild parties, the drugs, the neighbors complaints (do list the complaints- I know you don't want to break your ex neighbors confidence, but this is war!). Produce any relevant photos. The sum total of all this is that the N house is not a fit and proper place for a 14? year old child to be. Conversely, you should point out that YOUR home surroundings are settled and peaceful. Also, if N wants more access to S14 then you should argue that N gets LESS access, for the above reasons. The two arguments may balance each other out and as most judges want an easy ride, it probably will be left as is. Don't forget to detail N's alienation of S14, and that this is affecting S14's judgement.
It infuriates me that you cannot say in court that the N, at the very least, has a personality disorder, but I personally don't see why you can't say that the N appears unbalanced and request that this be taken into account
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livedthroughit · member Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 995

My understanding is that CA is a shared custody state. I am pretty sure they want 50/50 there unless there is a strong compelling reason otherwise? What reason would he possible have?

N is backed into a corner on the financial issues. He filed this motion, in my opinion, to take the focus from the financial on to something else.

Hugs to you Summer. He has no case here.

Sailor2bill · member Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

Summer, just another thought: My D's N took things back to court so frequently for ridiculous reasons that I can't remember which time it was, but on one occasion his case was described as 'frivolous and vindictive' and he was ordered to pay the full costs of that hearing. I gather that the custody hearing is a separate one and maybe N is doing this to clock up your costs (regardless of what it does to his costs). Perhaps you should ask your attorney if the costs of this hearing should be awarded against N as it is totally unnecessary and time wasting, brought about by N.
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NancyCT · Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject:

Summer, it will be OK. Just N's tactics to throw you off balance, put a fright in you. Remember, you're not responding to his other tactics anymore so he's looking for new ones. You won't lose your kids. He has no grounds for this motion. He knows that the kids are your soft spot, that's all. Just ride it out, it'll be OK.

Think about it - just his suggestion of threatening to take your kids has made you doubt your strength. He knows exactly where to strike, doesn't he? Filing this motion without grounds, he will just make himself look like a vindictive ass. Relax and go have a cup of tea.

Shadey Lady · member Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 205

Dear Summer,

((((hugs))))

I know it is hard to take, with N trying to make changes in the custody stuff but on some level, weren't you expecting it???!!! It is just another weapon he is using against you.

I think you need to start making lists of things that you can verify, with pictures and supporting documents, of what is happening with N. For instance, you say the house is worth $X and N is saying it is worth $100,000 less. Do you have pictures of before and after? You have letters from the homeowners assoc. regarding appearance of property? You can have your lawyer subpoena people to make statements: yes, N removed $20,000 worth of landscaping... or have the pictures. Don't they say that a picture is worth a 1000 words? Take a picture of your car: make, model, no leather seats, mileage, with your own kelly blue book info. JUst methodically go through your list and prepare your own statements.

So what needs to be refuted on N's list? house, cars, furniture, 401k. You also need to remember that with a judge, it pays to be nice. For example, "Your honor, I think N mistook my car for a different model. It is not a 2007 Edsel , it is a 1997 Edsel with 1 million miles. Here are my supporting documents." YOu don't want to come off as a vindictive wife, just someone who is baffled at the number of inaccuracies on N's list....

I know it is a heartbreaker about the kids. But from what you posted it seems as though it is mediation? Again though, have a list made up with supporting documents or journals. 1) N had my son on my weekend ( have the dates available). 2) When I reminded N it was my weekend, he sent back this email ( have word salad email available) 3) I tried to contact N about son's illness/ Dr appt? and was unable to contact him... The big problem is, that in my state anyway, after the kids are 14 they can decide where to live. I don't know how that kind of thing is done in your state.

Stay strong, Summer and try to get some rest. I took tylenol pm for a while so I could get a few hours sleep at night. Otherwise I spent hours doing nothing but worry. Also, the less sleep you get the more agaitated you get, then you can't sleep... it is a terrible cycle. We will help you through this.

Go to the msn groups page on narcissistic personality disorder. They have lots of pages on divorcing your N. Even if you have read them before, read them again and freshen up. There are some good tips to follow when going to court.

I hope for the best for you...As always, my prayers are with you.

Peace, Shadey Lady

vmm · member Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 187

When did N file the motions? When was your attny going to tell you?

1ablueprincess · member Joined: 07 Oct 2007 Posts: 195

I agree, he is doing it to harrass you. Also he is concerned about his finances and probably knows that CS is tied to how much time he has with S.

Document, document, document EVERYTHING. You want to show the judge how unstable his home is for your S and how stable yours is. And yes, dont come off as vindictive, otherwise he wins.
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survivor

Sailor2bill · member Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 204

Summer I agree with everything said here. Espacially Nancy who says N is striking at your weakest point - your children. Your other weak point is money, or more to the point, lack of it. Now think of his weak points: first and foremost is what all N's fear, being exposed for what they are, someone with a personality disorder (or, in my opinion, mentally ill). When my D's N wanted 100% custody of the children, she said that she would not consider this UNLESS he had a psychiatric diagnosis first. N backed down very quickly, refused to submit to evaluation saying 'it was a breach of his human rights to force him to do so'! If you could just somehow bring in N's mental state, it would certainly throw him. The N's other weakness is money, or more to the point, the fear of being deprived of what he has or being made to pay anything for your benefit. If you could let him know that the court will be asked to award costs against him, he will think again.
Basically, what N is doing is trying to intimidate you before the court case.
It's a bit like going into battle, where the troops will beat their drums as they go forward. This puts fear into their enemy even before the battle. It's also why the Scottish pipers play their bagpipes going into battle. The approaching sound of the bagpipes terrifies the enemy. So, don't panic over this, a lot of it is bluff to unsettle you before the case. Keep calm and as suggested here, gather all your evidence together to present to the court. In particular that N and his house are an unfit place for S14 to be, no matter what S14 is persuaded to say.
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Summer · member Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 928

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vmm · member Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 187

Most times they have to serve you before they file. I thought you said N didn't have an attny. Did he file all these pro per?

Summer · member Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 928

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safeinmyheart · member Joined: 09 Oct 2007 Posts: 10 Location: California

Hi Summer- I am so sorry you have to deal with this. My ex-N took me to court so many times and for so many issues, many of them manufactured. I remember the sick feeling I would get just seeing mail from my attorney. It was so awful--like being under attack. I can tell from what you have written that you are going through the same thing.

First of all, remember that the court will not change custody without good reason to. My atty told me (I am in Calif too) that they would not change custody unless there is evidence of abuse or drugs, or something else equally awful. In fact, even if the minor 13 or older wants to change homes, they are very reticent to change custody--they don't want the child being able to move into the "party house" just because he wants to.

You ask why, why, why would someone do something so vindictive? I asked myself the same thing so many times. The reason: The N is like a big hole; nothing can fill him up. He is punishing you for not filling up the big hole...for not loving him enough. Now mind you, this has NOTHING to do with you or what kind of wife you were or how much you loved him. In fact, NO ONE can EVER love him enough. He will always be a big hole.

And if you really think about how he must feel--going through his life feeling unloved--it's quite sad. He is in pain all the time. So he is giving you his pain. If you can, try not to take on any of his pain. Don't let these attacks hurt you in your heart. Tell yourself: These attacks are directed at me but they aren't really about me; They aren't about what kind of mother you are; they are about his need to punish, to deflect his hurt.

Needless to say this is much easier for me to say to you, than for you to actually do. The constant attack really does wear you down.

My ex-N also used the court system for validation. He was like a little kid whining to his mommy, "She did this and she did that...Make her behave. Please punish her for me." He filed a lot of stuff in pro per (no atty), and I had an atty, so I ended up with lots more legal bills than him, which was even more reason for him to drag me into court. It wasn't until we both had reasonable attys that things began to be worked out in a more reasonable manner.

We also ended up with a court-appointed Special Master. She was a therapist who had the power of a judge, and we met with her regularly to work out communication/parenting issues. She was a godsend. Our kids were 9 and 13 when we started with her. It improved my life (and our kids lives) dramatically. Perhaps this is something you could look into. If you have this avenue (and he is forced to attend these meetings), you can work things out with the SM, and fewer issues end up in the court system.
I was reluctant to go this route, but was told by multiple professionals (my atty, the custody evaluator, etc) that I would love the arrangement. And I did.

In the meantime, have a hot chocolate, listen to some good music. Go for a long walk in the morning or after work. Stay busy. Exercise everyday. Wear yourself out doing something you like--hiking, tennis, dance class?-- so you can't help but sleep at night. Keep telling yourself: It is going to be okay, He is doing this because of his mental illness, It isn't really about me, I am going to be okay. Tell yourself until you believe it. Really, you will be okay.

Take care of yourself. You deserve TLC. xoxoxo

safeinmyheart · member Joined: 09 Oct 2007 Posts: 10 Location: California

I had a lot of people tell me to document everything. Sometimes it really helped to have the emails or letters to show my atty or special master. And if you can do it without feeling more hurt, more power to you! But I just couldn't deal with documenting everything he said or did. Doing that basically would have elevated him and our divorce to a place in my life that I didn't want it to be. I wanted him to be gone. I wanted the problems, anger, hostility, lies, all of it, I wanted it to all go away. (It didn't, of course.) But I didn't want to live my life focusing on conflict. My ex- had this insatiable need to prove that I was the bad guy...so he made everything a conflict. I simply chose not to join in whenever possible. That included not reliving all the nastiness by writing it down. Years later...Am I sorry? No. It was the right thing to do for me.

Summer · member Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 928

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