Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1540

1) Did you have that nagging (and sometimes unconscious) fear of abandonment in your relationships?

2) Did it ever go away? Or, is it something that is always with you, but somehow seemed to learn to 'harness' or manage?

3) If it went away, how long did it take you for that fear feeling to go away?

4) If you learned to harness or manage it, would you share any examples of what you learned to do and/or strategies that better enabled you to do so?

I am currently working on my 'self vocabulary' or 'self talk' - instead of using "I can't" , I am substituting for "I can but choose not to" or "I don't want to because...."(to identify ways I limit myself and my choices); instead of "always" or "never", I am rewording it to "sometimes" (to address all or nothing thinking) - things of that nature that keep me in a victim mentality mode which I believe to be a driving force behind my fear of abandonment. It is harder to do than I ever imagined.

Anyway, if you have learned some other strategies that proved beneficial I would love to learn from you and your experience.

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 814

1) Did you have that nagging (and sometimes unconscious) fear of abandonment in your relationships?

Many times I never thought Id have enough strengh to leave I totally loved this man I felt at an utter loss every time he went on his drink binges I worried if hed ever come back and because he had made me so insecure about myself I fretted until he came home even though I knew the violence would begin again(I know it sounds mad but thats being honest)

2) Did it ever go away? Or, is it something that is always with you, but somehow seemed to learn to 'harness' or manage?

Once I was away and time had passed the belief in myself started to gradually come back all be it a slow process
I think its a bit of both because I did manage to "manage "it as it were

3) If it went away, how long did it take you for that fear feeling to go away?

I would say two years in my case I was slowly healing I still get triggers but I have learned how to deal with them, but the triggers are when people belittle what youve gone through mainly or dismiss it as" thats nothing"

4) If you learned to harness or manage it, would you share any examples of what you learned to do and/or strategies that better enabled you to do so?

I did this by living on my own (something I never thought I would be strong enough to do)Hours of soul searching and big questions of "why did I let this person control me
I had no contact whatsoever I dropped all his relatives his family I had to do this for my own self preservation I changed my phone number I moved twice
I know a lot of people get angry but I didnt feel anger I blamed myself
I think its only when I looked back at what Id gone through and realised I wasnt weak at all I was now strong
I found speaking to people who build you up helped to , I stayed away from negative people until Id healed
I cant begin to tell you how good it feels to have that peace of mind I wish that for everyone

Your quote
I am currently working on my 'self vocabulary' or 'self talk' - instead of using "I can't" , I am substituting for "I can but choose not to" or "I don't want to because...."(to identify ways I limit myself and my choices); instead of "always" or "never", I am rewording it to "sometimes" (to address all or nothing thinking) - things of that nature that keep me in a victim mentality mode which I believe to be a driving force behind my fear of abandonment. It is harder to do than I ever imagined.

One thing I remember from my therepist which was I found very good advice draw a line in the sand and I learned to say "no Im unable to help you" Or to let the phone ring and have" my time" I found this very hard because if someone asked me for help I would always be there
I now withdraw and have learned not to feel guilty about saying" no" and whether it would hurt someones feelings or not
I used to call myself a victim of domestic violence now I call myself a survivor of domestic violence
Im sure one day you will get through this and I hope I helped ive given you truthful answers
((((((((hugs))))))) to you as you make this journey you can do it believe me I was the softest most insecure person ever
Im still soft I guess somethings never change, but gradually you will get there
Keep saying Im a good person and I can do this I will win this battle thats my life I wont let him beat me anymore

sorry its so long but I wanted to give a full and honest answer
Love n hugs to you
Movedon
xxxxxxx

littlecat2 · Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:25 am Post subject:

Hi there .... abandonment .... that's a word that, for me, is full of "stuff." I have virtually always lived just waiting for people to tell me "OK you can go now," "it's time for you to leave," or "just get out of here." And then there's the often prevailing feeling that they're just going to "show me the door." I think it really only began to dissipate when I finally was divorced from my X/NH, had my very own home, and began to feel safe. I noticed that slowly these fears began to lessen. They still linger though, as I think once you've had that abandonment feeling, you're always waiting for it to happen again. But, I must say, it rarely rears its ugly head, and when it does - I may internally panic - but ultimately reality settles in. Abandonment is one of those things that is so deep-seated, I think it takes a long time, and a long series of experiences that counteract that feeling, for it to really sink in. Take care .....
abby

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1540

Thanks Abby and Movedon

I had forgotten about this thread. For some reason, I'm not getting notices of replies in my email.

I've been on a journey of self-discovery the past few months. I now understand the root of my fear of abandonment - and they say awareness is the first step toward healing. I feel more confident about that now than I've ever felt before.

Abby, I can relate to some of what you said. In every romantic relationship I've had in the past 10 years or so up until exN, I was literally waiting for them to fall out of love with me. I knew it would come. It was expected. My reaction with exN, however, was totally unexpected. His personality and the silent treatment were just the 'right' triggers to open up pandora's box - all of my unfinished business came flying forth and it was completely and utterly overwhelming at the time of the initial D&D.

Everything happens for a reason.. and now I know that reason. I needed to deal with my unfinished business from N Mom in order to fully move on and live a healthy, productive life. I need to 'work through' my pent up and repressed anger and resentment first, so that I can then find happiness and contentment within - and not seek it in others. Only at that point will I be healthy enough to seek out and recognize a healthy partner ... only at that time will I be able to have a HEALTHY romantic relationship. I am getting there.... I have already recognized alot of positive changes within myself since I first came on this board in July. I'm gonna make it.

Thanks again for your responses.

loux

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 814

Whow thats sucha good and positive attitude and I think your exactly right
Your doing great!
I have done you a siggy on the "Anything Goes Board On here the top one
Its under" tags for all"

So pleased for you (((((((hugs))))))))
Movedon
xxxxxxxx

OxDrover · Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: Arkansas USA

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1540

thanks for the reply Oxy,

it is much harder to do than I ever realized. Guess it's b/c I've been conditioned to think so negatively of myself over the years... the negative self talk mimics very closely what N Mom use to say to or about me.. but what has been learned, can be re-learned. I feel very positive about that.

OxDrover · Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: Arkansas USA

Dear Knoxy,

According to Dr. Eric Berne's theory on Transactional Analysis, inside us is a "parent", and "adult" and a "child" (kind of like Id and ego, per Freud) and the Parent is derived from everything your parents ever said to you in your enitre childhoold, which, because when you are little, the parent is "god" to a small child, thereffore every word out of their mouth is THE TRUTH.

The Parent is divided into the nurturning and the critical halves.
Some people get more nurturing than criticisim, so they feel more loved, etc. and the reverse is true. EMOTIONALLY we accept these "tapes" as truth, OUR TRUTH because "the gods" said it.

Our "Adult" is our RATIONAL selves, the thinking part of us (without emotion)

Our "Child: is the emotional side of us, the one that cries and feels sad, or laughs and plays.

If our Real Parents were very critical then our "9internal Parent" will be a critical one and will "BEAT OUR INTERNAL CHILD" everyt8ime that "kid" does or feels something that the Internal Parent would disapprove of.

Since we can't "get rid of" this internal parent, our options are to look at the "tapes" and run them through ourj logical thinking adult for validation.

Let's say that your real parent was a racist. and always told you that people of a differnet color were stupid. So anytime you were with a person of another race you automaticly thought they must be stupid. But, you start working with a person of another race who is very bright PhD and you start to get the idea that maybe the "gods" might be wrong, at least in this one case...so you start processing it and realize that "the gods" were WRONG and you TURN OFF THE RACIAL TAPE--it is still THERE but you just don't listen to it any more.

Your internal parent tells you to brush your teeth before you go to bed, and if you don't you acutally feel guilty...and get up and do it. Well, that is not a bad tape, you do need to bursh your teeth so you continue it.

Not all the "tapes" are BAD, they actualy help us do things on "autopilot" like bathing daily, brushing our teeth, how to be "polite" etc. and those tapes we can keep for our own benefits---IT IS THE NEGATIVE, and the UNTRUE PREJUDICES that our real parents "recorded" into our Internal Parent.

One of the tricks to work with this is if you start to FEEL GUILTY you canj ask yourself (from your rationa internal ADULT) "Why is my Parent beating my child?" (i.e. why am I feeling guilty about what I am doing? or feeling?) The answer to this may actually pop into your head, but in any case, just asking the question will help you STOP the guilty feeling immediately. If it returns, just ask yourself again until the answer does come to you. Then, turn off that particular tape.

Transactional Analysis is a simple form of psychotherapy and is quite effective (as are many other kinds) andc it is one that you can sort of "do yourself" by reading and understanding. Dr. Berne's book "Games People Play" is a good place to start, and "I'm Okay, You're Okay" is also a good one, there are many books on this subject.

Now that the swamp I have been trying to drain has "calmed down" I am going back to using some of these old techniques, and it is helping me sort through the water aand find the "small alligators" that still have to be disposed of before I can "drain the swamp" completely. I am also going to a therapist for Cognitive Behavior Therapy and EMDR therapy for the PTSD from my husband's plane crash and death.

I am coming to some rational decisions about how to deal with my mother, the "emotional" parts still aren't in sync with the logical parts, but they are getting there, so I have made a great deal of progress.

I am hoping very much that I will be well on the way to "graduating" from this forum on a daily basis by the middle of December--that is my goal at any rate. While this forum has been a tremendous help to me in more ways than I can ever say, there comes a time when I know that I need to "move on" back into the world and not depend so much on being here. This group of people mean so much to me and I am so grateful for the support that it has given, that Idoubt that I will "go away forever" but I need at some point in time (as we all do I think) to heal and get on with life.)

(((hugs toyou))))
_________________
Life is lived forward, but understood backwards.

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1540

Oxy,

thanks again for the reply.... and again, as usual, you touch on many things that I have been 'tossing' around already in my mind.

I have read a bit about the adult, parent and child that you describe. Of course, it does make total sense to me. Thus my rationale for using the word 'conditioned' to think a certain way. I realize / recognize it... but just starting the journey of sorting through all of it.

Re: the board... I feel the same exact way. In fact, just today I was thinking that at some point in my healing, this board may actually 'impede' further progress (for lack of a better descripition). As much as it has helped me (and continues to every day), I can certainly see where - once I reach a certain point, if I continue to rely on this site to the degree I have come to - it may actually keep the N's hold on my mind (the injury) alive. At some point, I do want - and realize it will happen eventually - to not give him a single thought; to fully and completely move on. At that point, this board would only serve as a reminder, thus keeping the injury alive. Make sense? (forgive all the 'at that point' s... repetitive, but didn't have any other equivalent in my thinking to convey the thought process).

I want to 'never look back' (on him), but at the same time never forget (the lessons). I am getting there. And I feel a certain degree of sadness re: that because I know that will mean that I will move on from here as well to a large degree - I will 'have a life', lol. (even though, as you said, I doubt I will ever FULLY move away from this board b/c the reciprocity of it is what is so valuable... but I will scale back to a very significant degree. I know I help as much as I get help here. Someday, my motive for being here will be solely to help, as opposed to both helping and getting help). My gratitude for this place is truly immeasurable.

Thanks again for the reply. You really 'get me' as far as my way of thinking and processing. Because of that, i certainly feel a connectedness to you - and to others here as well. Since PM is disabled, returning to this site in the future may be the only means to keep up with each other... and I would love to be able to keep up with some of the wonderful people I have met here. I've grown to genuinely care about many here.

loux

oh yes, and P.S.

Thanks so much for the book suggestions. I've been reading like a wild woman! and I am grateful for any suggestions that others found to be helpful in their recovery. I am progressing - no longer interested in books that define N behavior nor how the affect their victims, I know that now and I am no longer focusing on the N's... I am focusing on me (something my therapist had a hard time getting across to me at first, lol).

Very Happy

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 814

Hi Louxloux,I understand what you mean about the reminders were all different and for me I feel it helps me, I know im much further on in time but its what ever works for the individual.
I think we all hope you stay strong and go from strength to strength
Because your one nice lady.

Hugs
Movedon
xxxxxxxxxx

OxDrover · Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: Arkansas USA

DearLoux,

I too am starting to focus on the ME part of it--I am "disengaging" from the Ps emotionally---and having realized that there is NOTHING I can do to change them, am moving on to what I can DO--change ME, my emotional reaction to what is PAST.

Since a good deal of my life has been (in one form or another) been devoted to the Ps--trying to fix them, trying to enable them, cleaning up their messes, pain and injury from them, etc....now I have to FIND A NEW FOCUS for my life.

First and foremost of course, is HEALING my own injuries. Second, is a NEW FORCUS, a positive focust for my life. a NEW PURPOSE.

At the point at which I am pretty well recovered/healed--WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE? What is my PURPOSE then?

In my musing and thinking about all this, I realize that all the "goals" that I had prior to this summer are pretty well NOT THERE any more. A goal of healing is good--but people who go on "healilng" themselves for decades and never actually "ACCOMPLISH" the healing have I think in someway found a way to abuse themselves starting where the N/P left off.

A physician I worked for once had a phrase I loved. We had patients who never seemed to want to get well, he said about them "She ENJOYS poor health" And he was right, the total focus of these (generally healthy people) was the minor aches, rashes, mosquito bites, etc. common to a human living on earth--their "poor health" was the focus of their lives, but they never appreciated or enjoyed the GOOD health they actually had ,but focused entirely on the "poor" and very minor things.

I am aware of this and don't want to spend the rest of my life focusing on my internal "healing" either so that I come to "enjoy" my past injuries that never seem to heal, and if they do, then I find another past injury to focus on, and so on and on and on. My new therapist is also of this persuasion as well. Heal, and get on with your life.

But what? What do I want to do once I am "healed" (I know that healed doesn't mean "perfect," just reasonable "health")

I also feel an obligation to "repay" the "debt of understanding" that I have found here on this forum. I believe sincerely that if we are GIVEN that we owe a debt to ourselves and our God to GIVE BACK. Therefore I see that I have this debt to the forum so I can't see myself abandoning it, or not keepingup with some of the people here that I have genuinely come to care about as individuals. The very people who have given me so much.

Maybe we could have a thread "Alumni News" for those that want to keep up with each other in the future. I'll ask one of the managers about that since the PM is disabled.

Have a great day! (((hugs))))
_________________
Life is lived forward, but understood backwards.

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1540