Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

I had an interesting experience, last night, my best friend's grandma was sitting next to me, she has her issues, not sure what, anyway, I was holding the baby and she was friendly enough and I said hey, we need a grandma, come on and hold him, laughing, well, someone else mentioned their dysfx. grandma and that her husband's gps were dead. She later said to me, are your parents no longer living? Interesting question, no but they might as well be, you see they both have a personality disorder, they've had it all my life and I'm just now getting it in my 30's... I wonder what she thought, but I was proud of myself to admit, no things are not good, instead of painting the rosy picture. It's difficult to explain this N thing, my other best friend is getting it as she's discovered she's wrapped-up with an N, I keep telling her it's nearly impossible to CHANGE her, so either put up with her by drawing boundaries, which she will cross, get sick of you not giving her NS and move on to someone else, there's always someone else to give it to them, right????

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

I truly believe that they will find it somewhere, somehow..I have nc with my parents and my daughter has decided that she wants to go nc, especially now that she is expecting....okay, so that is two of us. My parents had the other grandkid move in with them.....but not her child. She gave the child who is 8 up to another relative.

Hope you had a good day,
justmee

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

You are so right, my sister and I are so much better after agreeing to both go NC with both NPs, they would pit us against each other, bad mouth, etc.. NPs are trying to get info about us through other people since we used to trianglate, now that's changed, we've changed their game plan, feels good to be in control, enjoy life, the freedom of not feeling bad all the time after talking with them, having to agree with them on everything... They don't deserve to know what is going on in our lives, even if she agreed to "change" she would return to her old ways, right??Thanks for listening.

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

I am so glad that youre sister is with you on this. I know my parents did the old divide and conquer. I hope this has helped your relationship with her...

justmee

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 499

Most people can't face the fact they were unloved and live their lives in ignorance. It is a difficult thing to do.

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

Oh, I know without a doubt, I was unloved and my NF never even wanted my sister and I. Sister has her issues, many, much more N. I'm aware of it and just try to take it for what it is, lower my expectations. We both are healthier with no NC, no question about it, still, sometimes we feel guility as if we're doing something wrong, behind their back, etc... I'm thankful to have someone to bounce off the past with, remember when NM wore silver shoes when I had a date over, just to steal the show? Sometimes our minds play tricks and the Ns try to change the past, you begin to wonder what really happened. That's been the most helpful, we are able to acknoweledge the abuse, talk about it, and move on...

Chrissie712 · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 45

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

Chrissie, you are so right, I think there's more awareness for example, the Virginia Tech shootings, the guy was described as an N in Time magazine and on the O'Reilly show, it's an extreme case. I really didn't understand completely until I read about 3 books and starting reading this message board, I have never known anyone with my family history of N, this board has helped me connect to those who really understand, we have similar problems and we're trying to sort it all out. Anyway, it feels good to tell the truth, on the other hand, it's so frustrating b/c there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Thanks for the insight.

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

Hi wlw35.

Learning about Nism is a double edged sword, isn't it? Time Mag and the O'Reilly Factor can bring NPD into the lime light, but ALL the N"S out there won't get it. It's lost on them. So we end up preaching to the choir, so to speak. It doesn't help a whole lot. Crying or Very sad

Riccy

Chrissie712 · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 45

Hi Riccy,
I agree with you completely that N’s will not change one bit.
But if more info on N becomes common knowledge, it would help those around N’s. It took me half a life to realize what our family and I had been dealing with. Nobody I’ve met really knows, from the inside, what this is all about. I can hardly imagine what our lives would have been like, if people in or close to our family would have recognized the pattern in an early stage... Or the social worker of Child Protection who had to decide who would get custody, and did an investigantion on our family when our parents divorced....
_________________
"We are destroyed, not by the rebels, not by the nazis. We are actually destroyed, very often, by conformity. I think it is better to go down failing, than to conform" - John le Carré

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 374

Chrissie, my NPs moved us 3,000 miles away from any relative, seriously, when my sister and I were 8 & 6. We have speculation that my NF was trying to dodge his illiget. daughter & so many relatives were asking too many questions about my NPs marriage, etc... long story, so they moved as far away as possible, we had no hope of any outside influence, church, a little, but they thought everything was good, so it was portrayed. We weren't physically abused, but emotionally, we were controlled so well that we didn't question them at all, no conflict until the teenage years, then they turned normal adolescence into a betrayal against them. Ns are so alike, almost like cookie-cutters, I do wonder if it's an generational deal, I see lots of N behaviors in the baby-boomer gen. (my parents) those in their 60's...

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 499

It is hard to explain the situation. I find it very difficult but I've made a pledge of honesty to myself in that I try to be honest with people if they inquire: so if someone asks me about my folks I tell the truth but it is hard. Very hard. I have found since I've been open with people that people start being a lot more open in return (no shit, why didn't I think of that earlier?). And often people share with me very similar experiences so it aint a case of I'm the only one which is how I certainly felt for the first 20 years of my life. There was one particular case where a person I disliked immensly became a friend after we realised we weren't so different afterall.

Chrissie712 · Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 45

Oh yeah wlw35, I know. It must have been very lonely for you and your sister. Our family was surrounded by a thick wall as well. Thick lace curtains in front of the windows, many many locks, chains and alarms on the doors (outside and inside), and that was symbolic for how much effort they put in "keeping the world OUT", and keeping up appearances at the same time...
I remember very well how we had to be the "perfect family", how we were supposed to adore our N-stepmother, "who had sacrificed so much for us, difficult children, that we would never ever even understand anyway...."

The N's behaviour it will not change. But I believe that the whole process of creating distance, becoming independent and the whole work up and healing process would have been easier if somebody would have explained this to me (and my brother, sister, mother and other relatives) in detail 20 years ago. And I have been looking for anwsers ever since I was 15.

Recognition of this N-stuff, calling it by it's name, is like putting a light on dark things, and that is always sort of painful and relieving at the same time. So to speak. (I hope this doesn't sound weird in English.)

Wlw35, I like your cookie cutter. That's exactly what I mean, and what I found out only recently on this forum and on Joanna Ashmun's site.

Thayilflies, yeah, I see that, too. It is ok to be open to people (not all people), it works both ways. Although in my case it never turned out to conversations with people who had known N's. That includes doctors and a few therapists, too. If far more people would just know what this cookie cutter looks like, wouldn't it be a little easier for all of us to open up to new folks we're getting to know, about our parents? After all, depression and suicide were taboo in the past, and they aren't anymore as well?

That makes me wonder: aren't we all still a bit programmed, and still too cooperative ourselves in keeping The Secret a secret????? Question

_________________
"We are destroyed, not by the rebels, not by the nazis. We are actually destroyed, very often, by conformity. I think it is better to go down failing, than to conform" - John le Carré

Smilin Fyodor · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 110

I don't every worry about trying to use the NPD terminology whenever I do end up talking about my parents. For me, I had to come to some peace that regardless of diagnosis or any other specific type of disorder, I needed to realize that how they treated and continue to treat me (if I still had any contact) is NOT acceptable and so I won't put up with it. I've found that when it did bother me when someone didn't understand, the biggest part of the bother to me was that in actuality, I hadn't fully divested myself from guilt.

I also find that I don't end up talking about the subject often. Most questions about my parents are small talk and need nothing more than "I guess they're OK" or something like that before the subject is dropped. When someone does insist on talking further, I don't mind talking about it any more. Recently, there have been only two folks that just didn't understand. I know enough about these two that one most likely has an Nmother herself, and the other friend has some enabling and codependent tendencies. Until those two come clean to themselves about their own experiences, I can't really think that they will understand my choices. In the end, their friendships almost seemed stronger since that conversation so at least subconsciously they've accepted my choices.

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 499

Likewise Smilin, I don't bring up the folks unless conversation dictates it, nor do I use NPD terminology. I'm also selective in who I disclose my experiences. Interestingly, I've started conversing regularly with my uncle who I always liked (NFs brother) and he sees the picture exactly as I do. I had no idea.