Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

ca_hottie88 · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 3

I used to post on the MSN forum but I guess it changed to this now?

I posted before about my brother. My family and I recently found out some very disturbing things about my brother. Things we didn't know but made sense once we found them out and other things that shocked us because they were just made up lies about us and his childhood and his background that were utter and complete lies that were told for no other reason than to illicit sympathy and to create a divide between us and whomever he was lying to.

My parents and I have always wondered why his failed relationships (even with his ex-wife) always seemed to be very standoffish with us right from the beginning and now we know why. He was lying and saying some horrible things about us and then when things would go sour with him and his gf, he could lie and twist the truth to US and there was no worry about us finding out the truth because of the divide.

Well it backfired on him this time and I found out everything. After I found out, I didn't say anything to him for a long time. He was in the process of breaking up with his gf after ruining her credit and destroying her name. I was listening to his lies for about 2 months as he told them to me and he was unaware I knew what was really happening.

For instance, his gf's name was on everything he owned and she was/is taking him to court to have the properties and assets sold to get her name off of the items. When he told ME what was happening he said she was taking him to court because she felt she was entitled to the equity even though she didn't pay a dime for anything or was on anything and only lived there with him. Ummm there is no equity, there is a second out on both homes (that he didn't mention) and yes, she is on everything, I saw the papers and I saw the court transcripts. But if I hadn't spoken to her and saw those things with my own eyes, I would have thought she was another crazy woman again (like all of his exes seem to be if you listen to his version) doing outlandish things to him for no reason and I would have vocally went on a tirade about it (and thus being a source of supply for him) as I have for years.

My family and I have often raised our eyebrows at some of the things he has said over the years and my mom and I in particular have always wondered why he seemed to attract the most insecure women who stalk him and do crazy psycho things at the end of every relationship but now we know why. After things have ended for whatever reason (usually because THEY want out) he does his little damage and destroy campaign.

Now he's done it to me. He found out that I knew and I had a feeling he would find out. I made the mistake of calling someone who I thought was a friend of his. I thought this friend would be instrumental in helping me try to get through to my brother and seek help. Well it backfired on me and I believe he told my brother and probably not in a way that was beneficial because he certainly seemed to think *I* was crazy for suggesting such things.

True enough, shortly after speaking to him, my brother just stopped calling (when he normally calls me every day) and I haven't spoken to him since January 4th. After all this time of not speaking to him, he has never said A WORD to my parents about this. In fact, after he found out, he stopped calling my mom for a while too, and he normally speaks with her every week. When they did finally speak, he was very short and kept the conversation very polite and guarded. My mom didn't bring it up and neither did he. EVER.

Last week, my mom happened to say to HIM "what's going on with you and your sister" and he started the damage and destroy campaign on ME this time. Said he found out I betrayed him and he thought I had his back the way he had mine and that I was wrong for doing so, wrong for saying things about him (that he couldn't detail when my mom asked to explain) and that I was so wrong. All he kept saying was I was WRONG and should be ashamed of myself. My mom asked him why didn't he call and talk to me about it and he said no it wasn't worth it. HA that's funny. I know the real truth, my brother is not a confrontational person but I am. He knows he can't call me because what can he say? I know everything and I *WILL* bring it up and expect an answer. I'm the type of person if you're bullshitting me on the phone, I'll hang up and drive over to your house if you're in driving distance (which he is) and he knows it.

The worst part of this all is, he has nephews that recently had birthdays. He was/is a great uncle (aside from some annoying habits) and was very involved in their lives. He didn't call them or email them or anything. I also have not seen or talked to my nephew and he seems to be OK with this.

I know what this is though. It's the flight version for him. He will avoid me because I know. It's very hurtful because I didn't seek this info out to hurt or betray him. I feel betrayed at the info I found out but I love my brother and I want to get him help. In fact, now that I don't speak to him, I'm just worried about him. Worried sick that he's in over his head with everything in his life and I don't know what's going on to make sure he's OK.

Is there anyone out there who has had a N relative that distanced themselves from you because they knew you KNEW their lies and N behaviors?

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

Hi, its nice to meet you. I was wondering, maybe you can not help him. I know you really want to but until he is ready to own up and stop bad mouthing you he dosent want help. Maybe he dosent think he needs it. I am sorry I do not have any advice but I hope he will turn it around and figure out that you really care for him.

justmee

ca_hottie88 · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 3

Thank you - I realize I can't help him until he wants help but I don't see how he's ever going to GET help because he won't admit his lies or wrongdoings and will go at great lengths to protect it all from coming out. Sad

alamobelle3 · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 615 Location: San antonio Texas

Almost the same thing happened between me and my brother. You

cant help him and while you loved him - he is capable of dropping you

( you know the truth ) in a NY second. He is quite angry and the best

thing you can do is to accept what has happened and walk away. He

will never admit the truth or take any responsibility for what he has

done. Forget him getting help - he is convinced there is nothing wrong

with him.- all the fault is at someone else's feet.

Expect more of the smear campaign though. Never forget they

are capable of horriffic N rage directed directly at you . There is no

working it out .

Sorry about the nephews - mine hurt my kids before I devalued and

discarded him. We have been NC for 10 months and quite frankly

I dont miss the chaos of his life. I remember the sweet little boy

but I dont know this person.

It hurts to realize that you mean nothing to them and neither does

anyone else so all the sadness and hurt is for ourselves.

For me I could never pretend to NOT KNOW who and what he is

that leaves no room to ever have any kind of relationship .

He has behaved shamefully and hurt our sister , our mother and

his now ex-wife who I loved like a sister, along with me and my kids

in a few months time. No one in the family will give him the time

of day . He has burned all the bridges he had .

They cant be helped - they are incurably mentally ill. N's do not

ever stop being N's which means there is no regard or respect for

you and never will be. It truly is ALL about them - 24/ 7.

I realized that I was sustaining the relationship all along, it would

withered and died from neglect long ago .

I am sorry it has happened to you too. Do you have other siblings ?

I have a sister with emotional issues . My r/s with her is so shallow

and superficial we might as well be strangers . If I actually try and

discuss a problem or issue she verbally viciously attacks me .

I have learned to keep my thoughts to myself and less said the

better. She likes to stroll down memory lane too which I find

upsetting and painful. Her version of the past is revision of history

and total denial of what happened to me .

I was our mothers target and she physically abused me for several

years.
_________________
illegitimis non carborundum

Ginger Rodgers matched Fred Astaire step for step only she did it backwards and in high heels !

ca_hottie88 · Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 3

Thanks for replying, you're right with all that you said. Logically, I know that I can't help but emotionally it's hard to deal with. I most certainly *won't* call him, it won't help anything since he's only going to deny and protect himself at all cost. I am however, praying for a change.

It's hard to let go of someone after 38 years, so very hard.

dreams · Joined: 29 Mar 2007 Posts: 167

Hi,
You wrote: {"Is there anyone out there who has had a N relative that distanced themselves from you because they knew you KNEW their lies and N behaviors?"}

OMG!! I am amazed at your question. That is ME!!!!!!!!! My sister is the one who is very ugly to me and is a pathological liar and she twisted things so...that her daughter wrote me a very hateful "letter" full of lies that were verbatum of her mother's (my sister's) lifelong hateful diatribe to me.

The facts once again (has gone on for years) were twisted by my sister to her daughter and of course daughter was only more than happy to convey these twisted facts to me to make me out to be a horror of a person because throughout the daughter's life- all the daughter has heard from her mother (my sister) was twisted stories about me.

My H knows all about my sister and he readily says that one of the reasons my sister hates me so much (besides the fact that I was BORN and sister never got over it) is because I am the only one who knows what she is really like. And she cannot bear that the one who she HATES simply for existing KNOWS what she is REALLY like yet it is to me who she shows her ugly, pathological, lying side because it is ME she has abused for our entire lives.....

My sister is on a smear campaign - bent on destroying my image and making herself the poor vicitim of her awful sister - ME.

I would be happy to NEVER see my sister again. The problem is that there are other siblings who are older and thus this P/Nsister was never threatened by them like she was by me because they are OLDER not younger. She was two when I was born and in her crazy head she is still the two year old who cannot get over the new baby. She desperately needs the love of the older siblings as they are her N supply just as I am in a detrimental way. She wiill do anything to ingratiate herself to the older siblings. This is calculated as it insures that they would never understand or believe how she could be like she is to ME if I would describe her to them. Not only that but if I did even try to portray her and she found out about it- her smear campaign would escalate and broaden.

It is amazing to me how someone could be so pathological yet adept at looking so functional to others. However it is what N's and P's DO. It is what she has practiced for decades and is an expert at. It is what she is BEST AT out of everything she does.

But to answer your question....YES YES YES.....I do have a sister who thinks she distanced herself from me- (I am the one who said that I needed time away from her and she made it seem like it was her idea) because I KNOW about her lies and her ugliness.
Regards,
Dreams

cloudsarecumuloft · Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6

Sorry this is so freakin' late. i just haven't been able to stop by the forum, and for a while I lost the web address, but here I am Smile

My brother (who is definitely a N, perhaps even a P) has had a string of strange relationships, too. He convinces his gf's that we're horrible people. He doesn't place a distance between us and his gf's (although I wish he would!) but he convinces them we're horrible and then when they visit, everything we do supposedly "fits the bill."

My brother's girlfriends have always treated us like crap. I think it's a combination of my brother's brainwashing but also the fact his gf's tend to already be mean-spirited people, perhaps N's themselves.

Example: my father was a physically/verbally abusive person (I don't know if he was an N, but he did have his own issues for sure). My brother would always whine and complain about how hard he had it growing up with Dad to his ex-fiancee's mother. (My brother leans toward being physically and verbally abusive himself).

Finally fed up, his ex-fiancee's mom told him, "as much as you complain about your dad, and you're probably just like him!"

This woman hit the nail right on the head... I'm amazed.

My brother, who thinks of himself as a genius was dumb enough to tell us about this. The immediate question was, "why are you complaining to this woman about our Dad?" and he didn't know what to respond.

As far as my brother ruining other people's credit... sad, but... since we both have the same last name, he's been telling potential creditors that we are MARRIED so he can benefit from my good credit (his own credit's bad). I'm literally in the process of changing my last name, I don't want him hurting my credit!

Yes, my brother avoids me like crazy but I think it's not only that I know exactly who and what he is. I also think he has this "smear campaign" going and one of his favorite things to say is that I refuse to talk to him (to the point where random people have come up to me, imploring me to talk to my brother as "he needs me.")

oaktree · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 362 Location: Minnesota