Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Running2StandStill · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 84

I was talking to a 17 year old that I work with last night. He's a VERY mature boy for his age - he's basically self-sufficient except for where he lives. He saves and invests money, he pays most of his own bills (car, cell phone, etc), recently bought a new car based on what he read in Consumer Reports, etc and not on "It looks cool and goes fast", is Christian and allows his beliefs to guide him instead of peer pressure, achieves well in school and a whole host of other things.

He turns 18 in a couple of months and is nervous about leaving home and going to college. I tried to tell him that while it was normal to be apprehensive, that he was going to do FINE, and I believe he will. He might run into some rough spots, but overall, if he were my son, I feel like he'd have all he needed to get along in the adult world.

That lead me to thinking about how I felt when I moved out of NM's house. I got a small studio apartment, which was run down as anything. But, at least it wasn't NM's house. All she did the morning I moved out was sleep. Never offered to help me, never said goodbye, just slept. Two days later she called throwing a shit fit about how I'd "abandoned" her just like "everyone else". Uh...I was 18 and it was time to start my OWN LIFE and stop trying to live HERS for her, and besides, she'd driven me out. It was impossible, if I were to consider my best interests at all in any aspect, to stay there.

When I looked back, I realized she made it just about impossible for me to move out. I couldn't get my license until I was 18. So, I couldn't drive to get a job since we lived in a rural area about 20 minutes from town. That meant I had no money either, and by that time she'd already spent my savings account. In turn, I had no money to buy a car or get an apartment.

Somehow, in the 6 months from the time I turned 18 and moved out I got enough money together for this rat hole apartment and a car that barely ran by working a job that she didn't even know I had in town for a local farmer.

When I moved out, I found out that I didn't have even ONE adult life skill. I didn't know how to cook actual food from scratch, I didn't even know how to bake a potato or scramble eggs - no, I'm not making this up. I didn't know how a checking account worked or how to get one. When I got my cat I realized I didn't know how to care for a pet - I knew how to feed him, get him medical care and know when he was sick, but I didn't know how to CARE for him - how to form a relationship with him, I mean. Thankfully he taught me that pretty quickly. Smile

I didn't know how to make good choices about buying a car or finding housing. I didn't know ANYTHING.

I turn 30 this July and only now can I truly say that I think I've got most of it figured out. I live in a 2 year old apartment complex and I just bought a new '07 Saturn. And my kitty boy is my best friend (OK, maybe I over-fixed that problem...LOL). There are yet things that I need to know, but those will have to come later. Like investing...you need money to spare to do that. Everything right now works, but I'm on a tight budget.

Did anyone else have a similar experience? Did you have that "Oh good, I'm grown up, but NOW what do I do?" moment? How have you developed and what challenges have you overcome and faced?

SpiritShell · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Canada

Hey Running,

My situation was similiar and yet quite different... my mother smothered me and didn't teach me proper life skills, either. She was successful at keeping me under her thumb until I was bloody 23! I TRIED to excape when I was 18.. and she sucked me back in again (like a black hole!). I finally moved out at 21... moved in with my friends in Calgary while I went to school. I did okay in areas like cooking, but, when it came to dealing with people in real life situations I was a mess. No clue - and had a lot of fear and guilt.

After school, I had a miscarriage, and she took full advantage of my vulnerability and reeled me back in again (along with my husband). After a year we finally excaped for good. Its taken me a lot of effort to even attempt to function like a human being in the real world. It seems that not teaching us life skills a huge method in keeping us dependant on them. Totally. I think with my mother though, she wanted me more emotionally dependant as opposed to life skill.

This was a very deep post, thanks for the reflection.
_________________
"Why are narcissists not prone to suicide? Simple: they died a long time ago."

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

I think so. I moved out at 17. I was finished with high school and planned to start college. Then one night my dad got drunk, he was mad at my sister and started shooting up the house. I got home from work, put her in my car and never looked back. I found a dumpy little trailor and enrolled her in school. Then the darn car broke down. So, I would walk the two miles to work and then back...needless to say, I did not attend college...
I learned from this to pinch pennies. After paying rent and buying what my sister needed for school, I was left with nothing, but at least we could sleep at nite. This is what taught me how to manage money. As far as cooking and laundry, I learned that early...it was one of our chores....
This boy sounds like he is going to be okay......

justmee

Riccy101 · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 287

My parents didn't teach me any life skills either. I learned them on my own. Thank God for "Food Network". That helped improve my cooking skills a lot. Kind of ironic since my NM was a trained cook and made wonderful meals. She was also a very accomplished seamstress but would become extremely agitated by me asking her for help with my own sewing. I could feel the hatred she had for me, so I kept a safe distance from her most of the time. I didn't move out on my own until I was 23 because my NP's basically left me alone for the most part. I worked full time, attended college part time and spent evenings with my friends, so I wasn't home very much anyway. When I was, they made my life miserable. I was depressed, but I didn't have the courage to move out unless I had the financial support I would have needed. I stuck it out for a very long time.

I have to tell all of you posting here, you all had much more self confidence when you were young than I did. That took a lot of guts to move out without knowing so much as how to write a check, not to mention taking care of a sibling! Don't sell yourselves short. You HAD strong survival skills. Those things all of you did were very impressive.

Riccy

thayilflies · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 486

Good for you Justmee.

sheenie2000 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 169 Location: North Carolina

wow justme, kudos to you. it takes a lot of courage and sacrifice to do what you did. as well as everyone else. kudos to all of you.

i can relate to this too. thank god for the internet. i look up how to do sillly things like how to boil an egg, how to slice onions etc.

my mom was a great cook and a great seamtress. she would just yell at me how i was so incapable of it all. she would tell me i woudlnt even be able to do grocery shopping after marriage.

anyway, i used to ask a lot of questions and do searches on google, and watch adn observe ppl like a hawk on learning how to do things. the hardest thing is learning how to react and respond to others. There's a fine line, in being agressive and assertive. When I was young, I was agressive and then as I got older I allowed ppl to step all over me. Now I'm still learning to be able to stand up for myself in certain situations.
_________________
"Happiness is not an accident. Nor is it something you wish for. Happiness is something you design." - Jim Rohn

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

Thankyou for the kind words but I did not due that great of a job. I love her dearly but she turned out so self-centered.....

justmee

Running2StandStill · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 84

Thanks for all the replies. I too love this place because it's good to know I'm not alone.

One thing that also happened to me is I was gullible with a capital G. I'd never been allowed any experiences with other people, so I didn't know the red flags to watch for when someone was having me on.

About 3 years ago I learned that I have Asperger's Syndrome, so because of that I sometimes have problems interpreting communication that's not direct (sarcasm and non-verbal types, for example), so that might have played into it, but Asperger's doesn't effect one's common sense and I had NONE.

God...some of the social situations that I bumbled into any idiot would have seen coming a mile away. I let so many people use me and make an ass out of me just because I didn't know what to watch out for or how to head it off or handle it.

I'm doing better with that now, but I have to REMIND myself to watch out in some situations whereas I think people who had normal development, Asperger's or not, would be on guard as a matter of nature.

WindSong · Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:

Nmom never took the time to teach me how to do anything. I moved out nad moved in with first husband at 18. We were doomed because his parents didn't teach him much either. I didn't know about washing dishes, doing clothes, cooking or just about anything about cleaning. I knew nothing when I had my first kid or anything to do with caring for babies.

I ran out of my mother's house at 18 and had to come back at 22 when I had to flee my abusive husband. she was very disdainful. we moved into mom and dad's basement where she proceded to verbally abuse me until a tree fell on our house and she wouldn't let insurance pay for us to have somewhere to go till we could all come back...... she kicked me and my little kids out with nowhere and no money to go anywhere. I had to ask several family members to contribute to the find me a place to move fund. I still had no idea what to do and fell into a deep depression. We moved back in 98 when we moved out of a homeless shelter where for the first time other girls there taught me some lifeskills.

She proceded to abuse me again when we moved back in 98, till she almost broke my spirit and the NP came into my life in 2001. Moved out and had some life skills but moved in and married NP to get out of my mother's house again. Went from the frying pan to the fire! I finally got my real life skills when it was just me and my boys and I had no choice but to do it. My mother never took the time to teach me any of it. I don't think I was worth her time.
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leigh · Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

I moved out of my parents house a month after I graduated from high school, not knowing the basics of how to take care of myself. Fortunately, I went to university and lived in a dorm room (a kind transition from child to adulthood). My mother never wanted to teach me anything when I was growing up, and I think now that it's because she was never very good at most things. Even though she didn't have to work at a job, she was only an average cook; Our house looked average, and she was decent at time management and scheduling, but never outstanding at any of her responsibilities as a stay at home mom. The few things she did teach me I did better than her, and that squashed any further motivation on her part to teach me anything.
Now that I am in my mid-30s, have a career, a good marriage with a loving man that I enjoy spending time with (something that she never had), and am finanical stable, she takes credit for everything that I have taught myself to do. I had no role model for a good marriage, and had to learn that on my own. She was perpetually broke and fighting with my father about money, so that's what I learned to do. I never saw an example in my family of a woman with a successful career, so I had no idea how to make that happen for myself. My mother tells everyone who will listen that the reason my life is great is that her parenting skills were unbelievable. She will talk your ear off about how raising her kids to be such happy good citizens is the thing that she is most proud of. She doesn't see me as my own person, and since in her eyes I am merely an extension of her she sees my success as having only one cause: Her. I have come to realize that I can never tell her any of this, because she really believes that she was the perfect mother. Yet my guide for how to live a fulfilling life is simple: In any situation, I just ask myself "what would my mother do here?", and then I do the opposite and it seems to work out just fine.

windinthetrees · Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 128

for me , i just did not know how to make decisions, trust myself...my dad always may all the decisions for the family no matter how big or small. Mom let him, so she is just as much to blame. it has not been unitl the
past year or so that i trust my own decision-making. I lsiten to my inner voice--it is real--there really is one despite my dad's voice sometimes
interrupting. then i just interrupt back. Cool

baby_kay · Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 168

I had a different experience. I was the most adult self sufficiant young adult I knew. I took care of my sister growing up, and was mother and caregiver toher. I made my own money, early by babysitting, I knew how to cook, clean, manage money, make money, and care for others. The thing I did not know how to do, was take care of myself. I did not know the first thing about making choices that would be good for me. When it came to everyone else, I was good. I trusted people I should not have, I made decisions, based on what would help someone else. Thinking and doing for myself, not in the equation. My NM was a single mother, and although she worked real hard, (like most fathers) it left no one to care for me and sister. We had each other, and for that I am glad. I was protector, mother, mature young adult. My mother however, would not trust, me in making decisions for myself. Kinda a double edged sword, if you asked me. I was mature enough to take care of her household, but not mature enough to make choices for myself. It took a couple of years, of learning the hard way, how and why I had to put myself first. I thankfully got that one down pat, just in time to be a mother at 21. My first marriage lasted a year, but my son was the result and for that I am thankful. My baby taught me, the real meaning of love. It taught me, how much someone can love you just by you being there. I for once, did not have to perform, I just had to be me, and that was all he needed, and wanted. I think looking back, that everything happens for a reason, and develpment of self, is a ongoing, life experience, and sometimes the choices, no matter how strenuous may seem, turn out a much better result then one could imagine. I am in my 40's now, oldest son, grown, and the bond that was created so long ago, is a thread that I would not have changed no matter what. And believe me, I have contimplated it acouple of times, as he has grown, and made choices, believing I would always pick him up. I expereinced, tough love, I experienced, letting him fall, and just letting him learn. (that was the hardest) and I had to let him, hate, and distance himself from me, and then find his way back home. I hated all of that, but it was necessary for his growth. No matter the situation, growth, how and why, is always a good thing. For all the acons, whose parents lacked, you can always do better just because you know better. The young man, that is spoke about in the beginning of this blog, is a tremdous sucess to his young years. But....like everything is life, you have to fall, and fail to become successful at anything. Timing is important, but life gives you the experience first, and then the lesson, if your not to down on yourself. No one is suppose to arrive here, and know how and what to do. Our parents should be preparing us for adulthood, but N's are all about themselves, so they spend all of our childhood, teaching us what selfish, mean, and abusive looks like. so.....we have to remove ourselves, and take care of ourselves, and learn what it looks like, and feels like outside of their drama.
Lit me know what you all think?

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 366

such good points, i've been checking in lately, haven't posted much, not sure why. i think so much of all of you surviving having NPs "raise" us. Justmee, you were especially courageous, never will you regret that decision of moving out, taking charge of your life, even if you weren't completely ready for it and it surely changed the complete course of your life! (good and bad) I'm back stuggling with depression, it's been almost 2 long years, the conclusion- need to work on family of origin stuff, you know all to well, I repress, then it resurfaces. I'm so torn at the moment, I have an opportunity to do intensive outpatient therapy, however, I don't have anyone to watch my children, in my heart, I know that I need to do this, to finally get a start to move on, but my situtation is difficult and I don't have enough self-worth to make it an priority in my life.
Thank you for your post on raising kids, I'm trying to do better, each day, I try, hope my efforts are appreciated someday. Keep me in your thoughts. I think of each of you, as I know you all know how hard it is to be raised by such self-centered people, the wounds are very deep.

limited · Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 47

WLW35, if you have a chance to have intensive outpatient therapy, assuming you like the therapist and it is a good one, grab it! As far as self-worth: it is not only going to benefit you, but also your kids! Instead of having a depressed mom/dad they can have a happier and more involved parent, you know how it goes... it takes learning to love yourself to be able to really love other people. Go,go,go! We are all struggling with similar problems...

wlw35 · Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 366

limited, I know that I need to do this, my heart tells me it's time, however, the obstacles of child care are so overwhelming. after much thought, it really helped posting my thoughts, I am going to wait (if I can, without going further in depression) and plan on making it happen in the Fall, 2 of the kids will be in school all day and I can arrange a preschool for the little one during the hours of therapy. I hope to make it until then and just keep journaling and hoping for the best. I think it's a necessary step for me to recover, eventhough I know it's one of many, maybe it will make things a little easier to overcome in the future. Mostly, I've heard really good things about the program from a fellow mother with family issues, also, it's sort of group and individual therapy, either way, thank you for listening!