Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Talk about Ns being described as vampires, Dad used to constantly bite me. Between his tickle torture and his habit of biting me on the cheek, shoulders, arms, and an occasional leg, I was plenty mad by the time I was 11. He bit hard and sometimes when he bites down he wouldn’t let go for several seconds. Whenever I asked why he bit me, he would point at the wildlife documentary shows and say, “See, those animal parents use their teeth to carry their young around.” It didn’t occur to me to point out that primates don’t use their teeth to transport their babies.

20 years later I’m watching my niece and nephew play with the neighborhood kids under the age of 6. Most kids were abit scared of this one little girl because she was a biter; her mom was trying to wean her of that habit. The mom said most kids stopped biting on their own by age 3.

It has often been said that narcissists’ emotional maturities never advance beyond the age of 6. Hell, was that why NF went after me for a good chomping? Did anybody else have family members who went Jaws on them? Or did any stuff that only children under the age of 6 could remotely get away with?

Enilina wrote:
It has often been said that narcissists’ emotional maturities never advance beyond the age of 6.

I can identify with that. It always seemed to me that my NM thinks and acts at the level of a little kid. She would have ridiculous temper tantrums where she would just belittle everything around her, especially her kids. She has this ridiculous face that she makes when she's testy or angry. She wasn't above making snide, childish little comments about my appearance. She will literally throw fits in public if she feels she isn't getting enough attention-that was really bad when my dishrag dad was in the hospital last time. NM was almost banned from the hospital for being rude, confrontational, and disruptive to the hospital staff.
I am the only one in the family that apparently has a problem with her behavior.
How I despise that woman.

XN used to fight with his son as though he were also a kid. And he used to poke me in the ribs in the way kids do.

NMom was just scary, though. With her tall tales and horror stories based on medical 'information' that wasn't true. Like a child telling bigger and bigger lies in the hope they won't be caught out.

I remember times when my mom was so angry at me and my brothers, she literally was foaming at the mouth. Teetch clenched and foam and all. She didnt have any control over us when we got older, especially when I was a teenager and got mad at her for being so rude and negative. So it was always wait until Dad gets home becuz my NM was out of control and could not handle the fact that we used to laugh at her when she would get this way.

However, my dad had control over us, although he was overboard and we were scared because he would use a belt for spanking and make us stand in the corner on our knees. Never talked back to him ever for fear of being hit.

One time NM tried to take a parenting class when I was about 14, I think, and my bros were about 9 and 10 at that time. I remember thinking, yeah right, what a joke, that's not gonna work because you're such an idiot. She was gonna use behavior charts and stuff. Of course it lasted about 2 weeks.

Of course when I was a teenager, I was starting to assert my independence and dislike of her behaviors. Once when NM was pissed at me at a restaurant, instead of just going full throttle screaming, (people would find out ), I remember she was in such a btichy mood, I said something about her attitude to tell her to shut up, so that pissed her off, she reached under the table and dug her nails into my arm. I remember her doing that kind of stuff alot.

She would go into screaming rages trying to get us to wash dishes, screaming rages trying to help my brothers with homework, I was a teen also at that time, and I yelled at her to stop it and she again went off on me. She was being such beeotch. Of course it was not her fault, she's just a victim. Never took and responsibility for any frickin thing.

How charming.

delete

I used to be irrationally terrified of vampires!

mrschrisc wrote:...so that pissed her off, she reached under the table and dug her nails into my arm. I remember her doing that kind of stuff alot.

OMG, my sister's arms and mine are both covered with wall-to-wall tiny half-moon scars, especially around the wrists and upper arms, though there are plenty all over. That was how she grabbed us, constantly. The scars are from all the ones where she drew some blood, I presume, though I don't remember much of that. But she was always grabbing us by the arm, with the force in her fingers, deliberately clamping down with her nails so that her nails were embedded in the flesh. Almost like a pissed off cat who swats but then stops, leaving their claws embedded. She did that until we were too strong to grab or maneuver that way, but if we were sitting down -- especially if trapped, like in a church pew -- back then she'd do it no matter how big we were. These days she doesn't dare: GC sis has been known to kick and scratch police officers (armed and the size of refrigerators) and even though I hate physical violence, at this point I'd defend a physical assault just for the principle of the thing.

But every so often I see all those tiny white scars all up and down my arms, and it makes me grieve for the child she did that to. It's like having a list of offenses and abuses engraved into your flesh: every scar is a specific time when she had to have broken the skin with her poison and hatred and putrid petty jealousies, when to her an innocent child was an enemy to be destroyed, when she was livid and repulsed by no more serious infraction than our goodness and her own evil...

Yeah, I think I'm gonna stop here. It has not been a good night. Thanks for listening though. :)

Mercy Me,
Crying from your story.
{{{Tight hug}}} for you my friend.
You are not alone.
I can relate to this.
My arms know the nails too.
The only consolation I see, is the beauty of us (all) finding each other.
And the strength to have NC.
Flick, like a paper cup in the wind, NC.
Another hug,
Corona

My M didn't bite, but she sounds so much like the person Mrschris describes; almost like a toddler with the fits & all. She did use her always long & well manicured fingernails, though. I still have a scar beside my right eye where she dug in. She was so mean.

After my NM started psychotherapy and learned about the "ages and stages" of life from her therapist, she cheerfully declared she was five years old. Every birthday, she would announce, "I'm not X years old, I'm five!"

She also started collecting fashion dolls around age 38, and still collects them to this day; she's 80.

Last -- and this is really embarrassing -- I remember my normal F used to spank my NM, and she would cry. I don't think the spanking was foreplay. Yuck!

xana wrote:I am the only one in the family that apparently has a problem with her behavior. How I despise that woman.

You were the only one in the family bothered by her behavior? Were anybody else at least embarrassed? Or did they, like, shut down. No wonder ACONs feel like freaks growing up when nobody else would give indications that N behaviors were not normal.

It just occurred to me that my NM talks like a hyper little child when she's telling her tall tales; it's neither cohesive nor linear and it tends to be a bit of a mess. I used to think it was because English is not her native language, but now I remember when she does speak in her native language, her compatriots have confused expressions on their faces as they try to follow her stories.

When my excited niece and nephew were telling me stories, my first reaction was that they picked up poor conversation habits from their grandmother. Then I remember they see her once a year so that wasn't it, this was how very young children talk. Strange I didn't make the connection regarding N's arrested emotional level and the childish way my MN talked.

Nail marks, teeth marks, temper tantrums...rather primal reactions of Ns, like theylare more animalistics than child-like.

Adoptive NM was brutal in many ways.
The biting, scratching, kicking, seemed minor, sick that such things should even appear that way.

She'd have childish tantrums, stamp her feet, bit, she used to hold her husbands shoulders and kick his ankles. She'd bite. She also used to grab my arms, digging in her nails, but not to the point of leaving scars, in fact she was very careful to try and not leave any proof of abuse. ..ie she only bruised with beating, from the neck to top of knees, down my back. Sometimes she'd bruise my arms as I defended myself and she made sure I covered up.

She'd act like a spoilt 3 year old, when not getting her own way. How others allowed that behaviour used to stump me. She looked so stupid, this very large woman, screwing up her face, boo hooing, stamping feet, biting etc.. Yet her enablers made excuses and most importantly they ALWAYS gave into her. Why stop having tantrums if the work.

NM is emotionally stunted for sure, and has a lot of generally childish behavior, though thankfully she didn't bite or have fingernails to cut into me.

NM has her father, who has severe dementia, living with her- I don't say she's taking care of him, he's living with her. Anyway, I see a lot of strange, childish things come out especially now. A few weeks ago grandfather was still in his PJ's and robe at noon when she was serving lunch. She was telling me about this and ranting like a little kid about how she was never allowed to stay in her robe until noon when he was the one in charge (when she was a child living under his roof, instead of vice versa). Err, he's an ancient man without knowledge of who he is, where he is, or what day it might be. I told her to be glad he showed up at the dinner table wearing any clothes at all! GF being under her roof now is bringing out more and more childish thoughts and behaviors in her; she's talking about putting him in a home and we are all praying that she does that soon. I'm guessing after the holidays she will put him in a home. Though not ideal, I think a home is probably a better place for him.

My NM would talk in this baby voice all time and it was so annoying! If she thought that people weren't paying enough attention to her, she would go sit in a corner with her back to people and cry while saying that no one loved her. It's disturbing to watch a middle-aged woman act like that.

Corona wrote:Mercy Me,
Crying from your story.
{{{Tight hug}}} for you my friend.
You are not alone.
I can relate to this.
My arms know the nails too.
The only consolation I see, is the beauty of us (all) finding each other.
And the strength to have NC.
Flick, like a paper cup in the wind, NC.
Another hug,
Corona

Awww, Corona. You put tears in my eyes too. :)

I can't be NC yet -- NM has developed a legitimate health issue that may resolve very quickly (think Teddy Kennedy) -- and the decision I have made for right now is that I will stay until I can't. I have been working all summer on going NC, and then this came up, and I am just stuck. Last night, before I posted, her "best friend" (who is just as wickedly covert N as she is; they just swap victim/perpetrator roles from time to time) called me to DEMAND that I call NM's brothers and their families and inform them of her diagnosis, even though that diagnosis has not yet been confirmed, and rob my mother of her right and privilege to make those disclosures when and how she chooses -- and when I put my foot down, she pulled her mask all the way off, told me off (well, sorta, it's not like she could get a word in edgewise :) and then called NM in the hospital to bully her directly, making it abundantly clear that she cares less about NM than I do about my socks.

NM is dying. I mean, legitimately so. And I don't love her. I don't even like her. But these are the people with whom she has surrounded herself, people just like her. I am watching her call her abusers her friends, and mistake controlling, dominating behavior for care and concern on a regular basis. They're the only ones left who will have anything to do with her. Frankly, that's fine too, if that's what gets her off -- and in a very sick way, I suspect it does. But these people -- for all their preachifying about "what's best for NM" -- couldn't be bothered to sit with her in the hospital for more than five minutes, and I didn't expect them to do that much. They made a pity visit yesterday after they happened to have some errands in the same neighborhood, and somehow tossing NM that bone of a visit gave this N "best friend" the right to try to wrest control of NM's most intimate decisions from her. NM is still every bit N, and still tries to wound me on a regular basis. Part of the current situation has arisen because NM herself has been slandering me to a ridiculous degree to them! But I cannot and will not throw her to these wolves if I can help it.

It may be that I am unable to see this through; I know this. If so I have emergency places I can go, though no money and no job once I get there. I am aware that I may have to just up and run. But for the moment, I am here. And remembering all manner of stuff, finally, from my childhood. Whether I am on this board or not, triggered or not, most days I have pictures running through my head of things I repressed for decades, like the fingernail thing above. I have an uncle that, amazingly enough, knows what she is. This is the same uncle I haven't talked with in 25 years, because NM always characterized him as selfish and evil, and I always assumed (until recently) that it was true. Now I assume nothing, and consequently all the skeletons are tumbling out of the cupboards, some of them landing squarely on my head. :)

So, even though you didn't know it, your little post meant all the world to me. So so true. Thank you so much.

{{{{{{{{{{{ Corona }}}}}}}}}}}}

So, even though you didn't know it, your little post meant all the world to me. So so true. Thank you so much.

MM, thanks for saying that, XX.

The way that I see it, is that you have your whole life ahead of you. You are eons ahead of most people ...the ones who walk right past that big pink elephant in the middle of the living room, pretending that nothing is wrong and nothing is there. You understand the big picture. And when it is the right time for you, you will be able to 'flick that paper cup in the wind' and say 'Good Riddance' without question.
Be strong.
Be good to yourself.
Breathe!
C

I always had the indian burns as a "joke" on my wrists. She wouldn't stop even when it was hurting and I was screaming to stop. Grabbing my jaw and squeezing, the kicking was normal too and I remember the nail digging. It just hit me why I don't like having my fingernails painted and only my toes painted. I guess I don't want to be reminded of my NM's long, red nails. She still has those d*mn things 40 yrs later.

Mercyme, I am sorry for what you are having to deal with right now. I can't even imagine having to deal with all that comes with being responsible for the abusive N up until the end. Hugs to you.

Notes2self, I too received the indian burns from my alcoholic NPD. And Nuggies, and being held down by his friends while he dripped water on my forehead (that he called Chinese water torture) and having my shirt tugged up and him slapping my belly until long after it was red. I forget what he called that. When I would cry, he was say I was too sensitive and that they were, "Just playing around".

My NM and PND separated when I was 16. He started dating and would tell me the gruesome stories and one that I distinctly remember was of a woman that like to bite him during intercourse. He pulled up his shirt and showed me the wounds like he was proud of them. He also told me that he likes to pee on the women that he dates. Now, mind you, I was virgin until I was 21 and had to listen to all of this mess. It's horribly disgusting to hear about the sexual deviances of your Father. Both he and NM for some reason chose me as a "confidant" and would tell me all about their dating lives. Sick.

Speaking of scars, I have some scars that my NM either caused or enabled, and she viewed them like the marks a child would put on a teddy bear to identify it. Talk about enmeshment, I thought it was cute growing up too, but thankfully I see through it now.

My NM didn't do the child like tantrums and never bit me.. .. Instead she is aloof and in her own world..I used to have to think up things to do to get her attention...otherwise she was too busy being with friends, on the phone or would sit in her room alone watching t.v or reading etc......If I came in there she would tell me to "go play" and "not bother her."..I think that is why my sister has a lot of anger and sarcasim towards NM.. NM made us feel unimportant and that was her weapon to hurt us..... I was like my NM's puppy dog, trying to follow her around so she would notice me...She never bit or dug her nails in me...occasionally when I pissed her off, like when she couldn't get me to act like her slave and constantly do this and that for her, she would get angry and pinch the back of my arm ( ouch)...or literaly grit her teeth the way a pissed off animal shows their teeth...It was freaky when she did that ... She would do that when she was angry... ..ofcorse she would also do the normal N stuff like, slapping, humilating etc...A few times she would knock me down and kick me....but I suppose as far as teeth go or biting, the closest thing she came to that is gritting her teeth ....and that would freak me out.. .....weird, I just recalled that my PF would do that also....and when he did it it was a signal that all hell was about to break loose..

Dear Mercy Me, Thank you for the update, I've been wondering how you are. I'm sorry to hear that your Mother is dying :( I hope that she passes quickly and without too much pain. She is very lucky to have you there, its more than she deserves. I honestly hope you inherit her home, because you could use the help right now. Stay strong, and please talk when you need some support. We're here for you.

X

Thank you, Serenity. You're such a sweetie. :)

{{{{{{{{{{ Serenity }}}}}}}}}}}

Aside from my NMs tantrums, she would also pick her nose. frequently. in public. her finger buried first knuckle deep in her nose.

The only other people I've seen do that without shame are 3 year olds.

wow Kiersten, sorry you had to endure the disgustingness.

My exP did that, and he didn't care where he was. When I was dating him he didn't do that, so we know he knows it's gross; he just doesn't care about others, period.