Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hi All,

I'm in the middle of dodging some high pressure ngames right now. I've been NC for six months now - six months too long for nmom. With the holidays looming, I'm suddenly getting unwanted intrusions from my siblings who have tried manipulation (my sister) and bullying (golden child brother) to get me back into the fold. I know nmom is behind it and probably orchestrating high drama even as I write... my siblings are proxies, pretty much jumping at her bidding. My return to the fold would also make things very much easier on them, as they wouldn't be expected to sacrifice their usual holiday routine to care for nmom.

My main question is this: Did your siblings give you a hard time over NC?
Did any of your siblings ever seem to sympathize with or understand your decision?
Did the hostile or proxy siblings ever give up harassing you or would they continue?
did they do this of their own accord, or did your nparent orchestrate it?
Did anyone retalitate or take revenge or try to harm you?

I figure that I'll have trouble with them around holiday times as nmom will be expecting a family time, and they will be expecting me to step in and make it easy for them.

anyway, I'm curious to know what others experienced with their siblings. it seems we all have so many things in common, I can probably get a good clue as to what to expect from hearing about everyone else's experience.

Thank you so much. You cannot believe what a blessing it has been to share!

zezee wrote:1. My main question is this: Did your siblings give you a hard time over NC?
2. Did any of your siblings ever seem to sympathize with or understand your decision?
3. Did the hostile or proxy siblings ever give up harassing you or would they continue?
4. did they do this of their own accord, or did your nparent orchestrate it?
5. Did anyone retalitate or take revenge or try to harm you?

Answers:
1. Not yet, I have only been NC for 1 month now, but NSIL called me when I emailed her and my bro about it. She called me cuz she was concerned, however, she thinks that my NM is trying to help me live a better life instead of intruding. So to her, it is NM manipulation cuz NM is concerned about me she says. But NM leaves a phone message yelling at me. Such concern.

2. My middle bro scapegoat is totally understanding. He was the first one to receive NM's hostile verbal abuse years before I did.

3. I actually do not have any hostile proxy siblings yet, hope never, but I actually was a proxy for a short while due to my NM telling me things about scapegoat. A few years ago I apologized to my bro and told me that I never want to be that way again, after I received the wrath of NM, I realized what I had done wrong. I also apologized to GC, cuz I was mean. However, GC did not really say anything, like thanks for the apology, and SIL I told her I apologized to GC and she said yes I heard that, like they never do anything wrong.

4. I take full responsibility for my proxy abuse, however, NM had called and told me things, so I thought I should get involved, now I dont cuz it's wrong.

5. No retaliation yet, but hope it would not happen.

As a side note, my NM has tried to enlist proxy uncle and he even went so far as to write me a letter, but I ignored it. He wrote about how he tries to rely on God when having problems, but he does not know me, cuz he is a long lost bro of my NM since adoption and he has only met me 2 or 3 times. So he talks a lot to my NM and he has no clue about our life up until 10 years ago.

Hey, Zeezer!

zezee wrote:Did your siblings give you a hard time over NC?

The first time I went NC, yes. This time, The Princess NC'd me after PM started her smear campaign, before I NC'd the lot of 'em.

zezee wrote:Did any of your siblings ever seem to sympathize with or understand your decision?

Nope. No one did. Some folks agreed to not talk about it, but without sympathy or understanding.

zezee wrote:Did the hostile or proxy siblings ever give up harassing you or would they continue?

The Princess gave up the first time after I explained that the subject was off limits and my response to her mild probing/baiting was stone silence.

zezee wrote:did they do this of their own accord, or did your nparent orchestrate it?

It was catalyzed, though probably not orchestrated, by the rat bastards.

zezee wrote:Did anyone retalitate or take revenge or try to harm you?

The first time around I got pressure via telephone and that was it -- I'd put a thousand miles between myself and the rat bastards, and hundreds of miles between myself and any co-conspirators or likely proxies. I had an aunt in the region, but she's more or less an escapee herself so I felt safe gambling that she wouldn't be sucked into the tumult. And she wasn't sucked in, so it worked out.

This time around, before anyone could hassle me he'd first have to find me. But of course you know that already.

Hang tough, Zeez. You're in the driver's seat, after all. It takes them a lot longer to leave a voicemail or write an email than it takes for you to delete it, and if they get loony at your house it'll take them longer to get out of jail than it takes you to have them arrested. Nuthin' to it but to do it.

Be well!

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I can see a pattern emerging. I am sure my sibling's interest is fueled by nmom now, and may be an off shoot of her putting the guilt pressure on them to change their plans to accodate her, or some such nonsence.

To try to figure it out means getting sucked back in, even this small way.

I figure that a normal person would probably leave well enough alone or would try to communicate in a decent, honest manner rather than use underhanded methods such as manipulation or intimidation to get me to comply. Those things end up confirming all my concerns about my FOO, and are alone are enough to make me want to pull back even farther.

It's caused me to seriously question health of my relationship with my siblings. So much of it was based on my being so needy to have some sense of family, of being afraid of being alone, that I was willing to accept mistreatment from them. People who care about you are not going to play "one up, one down" games, they are not going to feel threatened by simple good things in your life, and they are not going to try to tear you down to make themselves feel better. A friend loves at all times, even through their human faults and failings.

QuiteGoodEnough wrote:I had an aunt in the region, but she's more or less an escapee herself so I felt safe gambling that she wouldn't be sucked into the tumult. And she wasn't sucked in, so it worked out.

That's good, QGE, that you have her in your life. You may end up playing that role, either directly or indirectly, for an escapee niece or nephew in the days ahead. That's good. Thanks for sharing about your sibling, The Princess.... she sounds like she might be of the same royal race as the Son God It is so wrong for parents to blatantly favor one child over another, so wrong...

mrschrisc wrote:A few years ago I apologized to my bro and told me that I never want to be that way again,

That is a powerful thing to do, Mrschrisc. Just hearing that makes my heart feel good. Your brother was the scapegoat, so when you said that, many wounds he had sustained over the years probably got ready to heal. There is nothing like a loving apology. It is wonderful that you have recognized the dysfunction, stepped away from that role, and reached out in love to your sibling.

mrschrisc wrote:4. I take full responsibility for my proxy abuse, however, NM had called and told me things, so I thought I should get involved, now I dont cuz it's wrong.

Well, nmom did this with me, too, always about the terrible things in my sister's life. I never said anything to sister about it or to her family, but I would talk about it with nmom - which I now know to be a form of gossip, and hurtful. I don't want to do those kinds of things. She also trashed my brother's wife, and my sister's children - brutally, too. Innuendos of stupidity, incest, and catastrophic ineptness colored her commentaries.

While she was doing this about my sister, she was also doing it about me to my sister and brother. Both took it upon themselves to voice really scathing criticisms of me, under the guise of concern, at the time of our father's funeral how mean! The crazy thing was, they have NO involvement in my life, none - so the only way they would even have known this info was because our narcissistic mother was feeding it to them.

Now what were their criticisms over? Was I actually doing anything that could conceiveably arouse familial concern? late nights of partying? boyfriend-around-the-child issues? not paying bills? running up debts? substance abuse? mistreating or ignoring child?

NO!!

My brother criticized me for being "too tied" my ex, said I needed to have sexual relations with someone else so I break that tie and get on with my life (!) What a bunch of crap! He was wrong and badly informed on all sides, and mean to boot. It was completely unsolicited, had no bearing on anything, and completely inapropriate. I was saying something about my ex in a friendly tone, and he launched into that. I AM friendly with my ex, we share a child! UGH!!! He was also angry that I am not getting involved in his religious beliefs or supportive of his guru guy. I just stay out of it, and it really makes him mad. Usually, he will barely speak to me. He and his family once stayed at my house and he would not speak to me, he was so dark and self absorbed and arrogant. UGH>

My sister ripped me after I shared that it was difficult raising a child on my own. She said I was using that as a crutch, look at all the strong black women who have raised children and built careers, that I was using it as an excuse and feeling sorry for myself and so on. Neither were "pep talks" - both of them had a nasty, condemning tone in their voice. Both have attacked my faith - and I don't push it on them! I just live my life! I might talk about something I'm doing, but I never preach or proselytize. They both have been nasty .... and I figure, where are they getting the information to form these obviously thought out condemnations? We never even talk or email. It's from our narcissistic mother, that's who.

This was during a sad time, our father's funeral. What kind of people would do something like that?

Nah, all this has done is illuminate the whole dysfunctional dynamic

I'm glad to be free. I was once so afraid of being alone, of being lonely, of having no family - good heavens, it's better to be totally alone in a dusty little corner than emeshed with a bunch of mean, cruel people who will undermine one so badly it becomes hard - if not impossible - to even function properly in life.

count me FREE AND LOVING IT!!!

Thank you for your words of validation and support!

My NM trashed my bro's wife, said she was only marrying my bro for her American citizenship, then would dump him, based on NM's Nhusband, cuz he worked as INS agent, so therefore, to NM he is the authority on all matters. Please.

So I also apologized to my scapegoat bro's SIL for believing that and ignoring her, I was afraid.

My dad and NM got divorced about 2 yrs before my wedding. My dad moved to another state with his new wife, by unkown to me at the time, my NM told my Dad that we never wanted to see him again for the rest of our lives. Untrue. My mom also told me many stories that were severely twisted of what my father supposedly did, doing drugs, shady business deals, trying to run her over with his car, kicking her and pushing her down in front of the courthouse, etc. So my mom told me that it would be in my best interest to not invite him to the wedding cuz you dont know what could happen. She told me he and his wife were huge drunks and they would ruin the wedding because they would be so obnoxious there etc etc etc. Then just one time she did say to me, oh you can invite him, its you're decision. Well what I am to think, it scared me to death because of all the stories she told me, I did not know anything because I did not see him that whole time, I was already living on my own with my fiance. I was scared of something bad happening. So my NM got her way that day, however, my scapegoat bro got back in touch with my dad and invited him to his wedding, well NM was pissed but he didnt care - just told her to go F off. She told her from the very beginning to go F off and he still lived at home, duing the whole disaster of divorce proceeding. NM used the GC child to take care of her needs, and he is still suffering that, but he is not one to stand up to her yet, but when he does, and I hope it is soon, all the sh** will hit the fan.

I also apologized a few times to my Dad for not inviting him to my wedding, not being able to walk me down the aisle. When by baby was born, he was right htere at the hosptial, even though my NM said he would not even show up, total lie of course. They left early that morning to drive 4 hours to see my baby. I cried and told my dad I was so happy to have him back in my life. I was so glad that my daughter could have a loving grandpa. I had told my NM that to be prepared very nicely and respectfully that they would be coming to the hosptial that day to see the baby, she just told me angrily I should have just called them after the baby was born and told them that I had the baby. Such a B**tch.

THen at my daughter's 1st bday party, she was pissed that they showwed up early to help, she told me that I should have just told them to come at the start time, I got mad at her and told her I am not going to deny them the opportunity to help for their grandchild.

I had even told her, look I dont care if you hate his guts, just dont share that crap with me, go talk to your SIL talk to someone else, but not me. That's the end of it. She cant take that, she hates hates and hates, and just pretends she is a loving M. Please ...

zezee wrote:That's good, QGE, that you have her in your life.

That was during my first NC and far away from where I live now, and the limit of my contact with the aunt was a few emails. This time around I've NC'd the entire extended FOO, every last one. I don't feel that I can trust any of them -- even if they're perfectly normal in every way. It's the perfectly normal in every way who cannot fathom our experience as ACONs, after all.

zezee wrote:Thanks for sharing about your sibling, The Princess.... she sounds like she might be of the same royal race as the Son God It is so wrong for parents to blatantly favor one child over another, so wrong...

And so typical of narc parents. I can't help but wonder why any of their children want anything to do with them.

What baffles me is GC's taking an active role in restoring or attempting to restore the dysfunctional dynamics of narc world. I know what they're doing and why, and I understand how their programming frees them from feelings of guilt and shame for doing it. But for the life of me I can't find compassion for their strange circumstances that cause them to act that way. How can anyone tell his own brother or sister, essentially, "I want you to go back to suffer more of mom's abuse so I can believe that I look good in her eyes"? How can they be so self-unaware, or if they are self-aware, so cruelly self-interested? While I understand it intellectually, I'm still outraged by it, and by the senselessness of it.

zezee wrote:I'm glad to be free. I was once so afraid of being alone, of being lonely, of having no family - good heavens, it's better to be totally alone in a dusty little corner than emeshed with a bunch of mean, cruel people who will undermine one so badly it becomes hard - if not impossible - to even function properly in life.

I'm glad that you're free, too.

In my family, I think I was supposed to be the family hero, at least in the beginning....The one who made up for my mother's sins by being perfect and elevating the family's status via my accomplishments and appearance. But when the pressure to be perfect got too much, and perfection became meaningless to me personally- I somehow winded up as my mother's emotional caretaker with all the rubbish & demands that go along with that. It started when I was around 30 I think, when i was broken after my first relationship with an NPD boyfriend. My mother stepped in and tried to keep me in that broken condition, using the same kind of feedback that broke me down in the first place . I got sick of it fast, created some distance between us, and for years she tried to pressure me into an enmeshed, abusive, relationship that I didn't want or need.

My mother's behaviour is overtly cruel and just wrong- like her multiple affairs, abandoning her family when her 6 children were small and very dependent to run off with various men, her cruelty towards our father, her grandchildren, and her animals.. and anyone close to her knows it. So the pressure from close family to tow the line has been there, but in small doses only. My brothers have the kind of personalities that could be used to bully me, but I don't think they will do it. ..they just aren't close enough to me for that sort of thing. For bullying, my mother has used my biological father and his Son, who don't know me or know her, and frankly have no business getting involved in my affairs.

I also think proxies are afraid of the truth, and this keeps them at arms length. They don't want to hear that my mother is abusive, has a personaility disorder, or that I'm entitled to live a life free of abuse. Theres too much truth in it, and I feel that my family aren't ready to face it...because it means looking at themselves, at how they're raising their families, why they chose the partners they did, why they are involved in cults in some cases too. People have to ready for the truth I guess, because it hurts a lot. Its not their time, but its mine. I'm keeping the bridges open, but I don't think I'll be seeing family in a long time. They probably also need to realise that my decision is permanent.

Serenity wrote:I also think proxies are afraid of the truth, and this keeps them at arms length. They don't want to hear that my mother is abusive, has a personaility disorder, or that I'm entitled to live a life free of abuse. Theres too much truth in it, and I feel that my family aren't ready to face it...because it means looking at themselves, at how they're raising their families, why they chose the partners they did, ...... People have to ready for the truth I guess, because it hurts a lot. Its not their time, but its mine. I'm keeping the bridges open, but I don't think I'll be seeing family in a long time. They probably also need to realise that my decision is permanent.

Yes, I wondered why my SIL is taking sides somewhat with my Nm, she knows it's wrong some of these things she does, but I had asked her a couple of times that if she noticed that my NM is putting her and my GC on a pedestal. She compares them to me and my middle bro (the scapegoat) cuz they "look" more put together successful of all NM's 3 kids. She agreed with me, we had a nice conversation about it, she said she doesnt know why, so I said I think its because she has a nicer house then us and my NM looks at that, but then SIL gets defensive about it, saying, well we work hard for our house. As if we dont work, Does this mean I am lazy? I dont get it.

I am not invested in keeping up appearances, it is just too tiring to try and keep up the appearance of having it all together. I would be a raving beeotch if I worried so much about my house almost to the point of OCD.

Why would she feel like that? I am not jealous of her house, just stating a fact of my NM, I know my house is not as nice as theirs, so what?

Also, SIL thinks that what my NM is doing is trying to help me and she said my NM is concerned about me, please. Just NM crap talking about me again and talking about my so-called "problems". Gossip is a vile poison.

Yeah, I know what you mean Mrschris. So much of the behavior of a proxy is strange and unnecessary. One thing I sense about my sister is that she lives in the past more than I do. Its as if she's still that little girl living in a family where our mother's love was so very scarce, and approval had to be fought for, competed for against other siblings, and held onto at all costs because my mother's punishments were so cruel and over the top. I don't think my sister has let that go yet. She's still so competitive when she already eons ahead of me in the material sense. And when she's in favour with our mother, she'll do anything to keep it, like a little kid. She just completely sells out , even me, even her own husband, even her children. She thinks she's being loved, but she's only being used and manipulated. Anyway, she doesn't listen to me. She kind of switches off when we talk about deep things. And I suppose the truth could be more sinister than I'm willing to believe, I mean it all could be about the inheritance with her, and she just wants our parents money more than she wants real relationships in her life, or to grow.

The first N in our family I went NC with was younger middle sister. She rejected me, throwing me out of her home (EM was there at the time) so I just decided to keep it that way.

My enabling mother doesn't remember much - she blocks a lot out - and says she just can't understand why we don't get along; she says we have sibling rivalry. (Yeah, right!)

I have discussed NPD with mother - my father had it too - but she is disinterested and wants me to just "get over it". Agree with the sentiment, but it seems to be something I need to discuss... which is why I come here. Thanks guys.

Mother has mentioned things occasionally about my sister not having empathy,for example... but she feels torn and sad, which I understand. I don't ask for anything from mum and am LC.

Youngest sister is borderline so constantly flip flops between understanding/comdemning me for ruining the family, hahaha. (She asked N sister and I to go to mediation counselling; I said OK, N sister refused, of course.)

I also went NC with N father just before he died as he was so badly behaved. I am proud of myself for doing that. My grandmother got angry when I refused to accept his abuse; I am no longer in touch with her. She is 91. Mean, aren't I!

I find myself with less and less in common with my FOO.

But it's about time I lived my own life and enjoyed myself anyway!

Thanks for hearing me.

Nonarcs wrote:

I find myself with less and less in common with my FOO.

But it's about time I lived my own life and enjoyed myself anyway!

Awww Yeeaahhhhh! You go Nonarcs.!

Grrrrr... This isn't so much about my GCbrother but my younger cousin suppositly texted me this morning asking me to come to her compition in a city she lives 2 hours away from (I happen to live there). I text back that I'm on vacation (out of state) and won't be able to make it. So I get a text back asking me to call my NM! Later I notice these text came in at 7 am! I hate proxies more than Ns.