Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

bengalbuddy · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2

I thought I would open with the first post . I have a 24 year old son who is a P and I am NC. I have my good days and bad days as I never know when or if my P son might call. I last talked with him in November 2006. Actually, he estranged himself from us when we would not let him come to visit because we learned he was doing drugs again. It has been a very painful journey but I realize this is for the best because he is dangerous and can't be trusted. . I still feel the pain but I miss what I wanted him to be, not the way he really is. I grieved for years(he left home at 15). Having a P child and NC is like a death. Can anyone relate?
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bengalbuddy

Cookie1 · Guest

I can relate Exclamation

The p is my x husband who turned 2 outa 3 kids against me b4 I even left him....these kids are grown with kids of their own now...They are in denial of what THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE Embarassed

and because of that and also trust issues caused by them I have had n/c with them since 2002...my 90 yr old dad kept listening to my 2 sisters who thought I was full of baloney about the physical abuse"Because they never saw him do it" and I needed to cut contact with him as well.....most of this nc with my dad happened after my sisters kept inviting this abusive p to MY family doings...in other words what they were saying to me was 'YOU ARE A LIAR'......they had absolutly NO concern for my welfare even tho I was locking myself into my place with 4 locks and an alarm just so p wouldnt come after me......NO CONCERN at all....I remember once one of them told me I should just clobber him in the head with a cast iron skillet....My sisters would have LOVED that....cause I would have gone to prison....they would have gotten rid of me then....For 20 yrs they tried to get rid of me....I am stubborn and wouldnt let them...finally I realized what awful women they are and just did n/c on all of them......I feel so much better w/o them Very Happy

bengalbuddy · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 2

Hi, Cookie-I am so sorry for all you have had to go through. Most people do not believe(including members of MY family) that my son is a P but I realize that they just don't understand so I simply say that we are estranged. It took me a long time and some education to see that my son is a P. Most people think all P's are Ted Bundys. My mother used to tell me that my P son needed more discipline. She really does not have a clue!
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bengalbuddy

baba · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 5 Location: USA

I used to have a son 20 years ago. We got along very well, had a loving relationship. He met a young woman, who manipulated him, didn't let him bring her home until she was pregnant, and that's when I met her. In a few weeks they were married. She has started to D&D me right away, and by the time their child was born, I was treated like crap. My son was so enamored by her and their baby girl, he never stood up to her. They didn't let us see the grandchild, then came a son for them, they wouldn't let us take the boy to the playground even. To her, I wasn't a grandma, she told me, only her Mom was. I could write a book about her cruelty and nasty ways. She is an N/P, wanted total control of my son. Then, as luck would have it, she realised that my xNH would be a great ally for her, he would help alienate my son from me. So, almost 6 years ago, they didn't even say hi to us when we met. Since then, we never heard from them, never seen the grandchildren. They live 15 minutes from us. So I don't have a son anymore. As far as I'm concerned, our relationship has been damaged to the point of no return. If my son came to me and wanted to have our relationship resumed, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with him. He has been so brutal, so P to me, I'm not young, and will not
risk putting myself into another to-do with him, I don't think I would survive it.
I had an N/P mother, an xNH, and my son is an N/P. I'm weary. Dolly

own3cats2 · Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 15

Hi Buddy, I can relate. Recently, I was told my son was like my hubby only worse, and that he learned to have no conscious from his father. Sad

I was told this by the family counselor who has seen our family for 3 1/2 years. My heart sunk and hurt (the pain of hearing this was unbearable). I always wanted my children to be caring people, and this was very important to me. It was the most painful words anyone has said to me. My son has leaned well, in my opinion, to manipulate people for his own gain or revenge. I have a strong faith in my higher power, so this has helped me. Also, a belief that we all have are own lessons to learn in life. My son has tested me as a parent as far as unconditional love and loving him. I DO LOVE MY SON UNCONDITIONALLY. I DO LOVE MY SON. I will always be his mother. I just don't like his behavior. Thanks for sharing honestly Buddy. Catz

want_to_learn · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Scotland, UK

Hi Own. Looks like it boils down again to the nature V nurture debate for our disordered children. I too have a disordered child, 20 year old woman. She has the body of a woman and the mind of an adolescent.a lethal combination...10 years ago, I would have said I loved my daughter unconditionally.now, she is dangerous and totally untrustworthy and any feelings I may have had left for her would have to be well and truly buried in order to protect myself.so It doesn't really matter to her if I love her or not.in fact, to show her any sort of feeling is showing her a weakness.and so far last year alone, my daughter cost me about £10,000.and thats not including the emotional cost..the money you can get your head round, the lies and deception and damage to your family takes a lot more.

want_to_learn · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Scotland, UK

To Baba. It sounds like the worst thing in the world to have to get your head round.walking away from your own flesh and blood.I understand perfectly cos I have had to do the same with my daughter.and what wears me down is forever having to explain to others why I had to do it. I would have said that my family was very loving and very close.we had our ups and downs like all famillies but I only realised last year that my then 19 year old daughter was a real cuckoo in the nest and unfortunately she caused untold irrepairable damage before the penny finally dropped for me. I am lucky, I have the backing of my H and my 3 other daughters.and quite frankly the rest of the world don't really count any more.all I can say to anyone out there who wants to judge me is..if they can do better, feel free.
I could sit here typing all day long about the terrible things my daughter has done.and eventually you have to draw the line and accept that things don't get better.they escalate to much worse. I was told......."If the mouth is moving, they are lying".and its so true..and that one sentence probably helped me keep my head during a very difficult period which lasted the whole of last year.
I think also that we want to believe our kids.cos we love them and put their whole lives effort into them.and maybe it was for nothing.such a waste, such a shame..but, we are entitled to some peace in our own lives too.and we can't help them, just feed a need for them..so thats why I walked away also.

BloomingintheSON · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 345

I don't know how I missed this thread until now!! Others HAVE/DO experience horrific pain regarding their children, too. What a bitter/sweet relief. There are people who may be able to understand my story!! I have felt so very alone these past 5 years. Reading about and helping others with N/P relationships has helped but only so much but hasn't reached the core of my pain and confusion.

I hardly know where to start, though, now that I've found "you." Five years ago, I had to suddenly pack a suitcase, my laptop, and a plane ticket to another state (where I knew no one) after my abusive H's private abuse (to control me) increased to life-threatening proportions. I KNOW I would be dead if I had stayed.

We had been married 46 years. All that time, I thought I had succeeded in hiding the abuse results and that the relationship I had with our four children was solid. Even after they each married and started families of their own, I thought all was well, even with their spouses. (Eleven grandchildren by the time I escaped.)

I was SHOCKED to learn that they all abandoned me -- totally and completely with NO CONTACT. I heard that they claimed I had abandoned them! (We all lived in the same community.) When I tried to explain (by phone) WHY I left - as my counselors told me to do -- they accused me of "bad-mouthing" their father. hung up on me, and then the NO CONTACT was unbreakable.

With counseling and research, I have learned that N's use proxies to side with them against the target (me.) My children obviously have been well brainwashed. I have no idea what lies exN could have fed to them. Not knowing probably has tried to "kill" my spirit more than anything else. It is such a huge puzzle to me. All I did was leave suddently to save my life. (then ex sold our huge house we'd lived in for 29 years without my knowledge so I couldn't go back. What in the world could he have told them about that illegal decision??)

I have had no communication with them for so many years I have no idea whether or not the long exposure to their father's unacknowledged personality disorders (even before I left) have manifested in them as well. I truly am reaching the point where I have to begin to believe they have picked up the traits too to explain their behavior toward me. Nothing else makes sense.)

I don't have to describe the pain and grief -- I think all of you are experiencing it yourselves.

I'm sorry this post is all about "me" out of my eagerness to tell my story to SOMEONE who understands. I promise that I have more to share with you of how I have learned (with god's help) to keep my head above water, so to speak. I certainly am eager to hear from all of you how you are coping.

I live alone and have not had the energy or heart to develop new friendships yet. but, I am pleased to tell you that none of my true friends abandoned me!! They have given me weekly phone and email aupport. So have both of my two elderly sisters. But, they all live in distant states and have never experienced abusive marriages or children that have abandoned them.

God bless each of you with strength for whatever you are facing today.
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"My intuition is God's gift to me. Using it is my gift to God."

Cookie2 · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1394

Hi Blooming! You definantly have found people who know just how you feel and the heartbreak your going thru.....without me being aware of it my x was turning 2 out of 3 of my kids against me while I was still with him...probably was doing the same with my dad and sisters as well as neighbors and friends who were mostly mine.....I thought I had a pretty good relationship with my son and oldest daughter...the middle one I believe had been sexually abused by her dad yrs ago and always seemed to hate me) I wasnt aware of this till I left the p.One nite the p threw me on the couch and went to hit me closed fist and I scratched his arm....Well he got up and left the house....I found out within an hour he had gone to see the 2 kids who won't have anything to do with me....After 36 years of his physically abusing me(and all 3 kids) he ran to them like a little tatletale child.....they then c ame over to my house and for 2 hrs held me captive...tossing me around...throwing the phone so it brike and I couldnt call anyone...not allowing me outside...not allowing me to smoke....Finally to get them to leave(after everything I said to them was answered with Your a fucking liar) I closed my eyes and tried to zone out.....As they left they said one of them needed to keep their dad at their place cause I was going to kill him...HUH????? Of course he did come home that night because HE knew full well who was in danger of being killed and it WAS NOT him! That was the night I put the divorce into motion....After our 1st court appearance this bastard told those kids that I told the judge they were dead to me....That did it...sealed my coffin with them.....IT WAS NOT EVER SAID! I asked the judge...I asked my lawyer...my lawyer asked his lawyer.....NO ONE ELSE HEARD IT....Because it was NEVER sadi...But it worked for him didnt it...It's been 5 years and 3 more grandchildren for him and I'm sure he doesnt like or love any of them.....
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I have a photographic memory....I just don't have same day service.....................Cookie

want_to_learn · Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Scotland, UK

Hugs to you cookie.......

2dogs1cat · Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 1

For years I have struggled with my daughter incessant lying, stealing, and so forth. For years I have put up with her mood swings, demands, hostility, hot and cold moments, I have tried to set boundaries, guidelines, etc. She has always been the girl in the nursery rhythm - when she good she was very very good, but when she was bad...she was rotten.

When she was 14 she alleged that she had been raped on the way to the bus stop. The moment I got the call, my first thought wasn't "Oh My God my poor baby" it was rather "Oh my God, please don't let her be lying again." After a week of her lies, we discovered our worst fears - she was lying. She finally admitted it - she had gone so far as to even have a sketch artist work her...the final result looked remarkably close to one of the police officers.

I've always chocked it up to her being an "old soul" and too impatient for adulthood. At this point, over the course of these last 8 months or so, I've come to realize that she is sociopath and even worse...I can't get her help until she turns 18 in November and by then...it'll be too late. I have essentially given up and the shame that I feel is intense. I feel as though I have failed her, society, God, my family, and so on and so on and so on.

How do I let go and surrender that I had no idea, that I had no concept of sociopathic behavior until it was too late. I tried, I was single parent for most of her developmental years, I believe that we bonded when she was a baby, she was such a good little girl, where did I go wrong? When did I lose her? How do I let go? How do I distance myself from her and accept that I will never have the kind of relationship with her as my mother has with me?

I must admit though, that I actually feel better knowing that it isn't just me, my daughter, and that I am not alone - that there are others out there that understand the struggles, the ups and downs, the joys and absolute heartbreak. My husband doesn't get it because he is step-father and my son is tired of his sisters drama.

Thank you for 'listening' to my pain and heartbreak. I admire each of you and the strength you display in sharing your stories and pain. I'm not ready to walk away from her yet (especially since she is still in my house and not ready to leave until next fall, when she turns 18, and there is always the chance I could be wrong?!? maybe.)

BloomingintheSON · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 345

Dear Cats,

I have been thinking of your post but haven't been able to reply because my keyboard went kaput and I couldn't type anything at all for three dsys.

Is it possible your daughter is using alcohol and drugs behind your back? The story of your daughter's behavior -- even the when good very good and when bad horrid part -- is very similar to one of my daughter's lying, stealing, etc. We learned that the problem was drug abuse. At 14, she thought she would just "experiment" because "everyone" was doing it and got caught up in the whole addiction scene. She, too, lied about being raped and when she finally was gang raped, we didn't believe her at first. I'm sure she still thinks I didn't protect her but I have no more guilt. Trust had been broken by her, not me. She put the drugs in her mouth, not me. She felt she had to lie and steal to support her habit. Her choice, not mine. (I hope this last doesn't sound heartless because the "road" to get to that realization was long and hard and heartbreaking.)

We were able to get her into a safe house for two years (ages 16-1 Cool

and even after more trauma, she finally saw the "light" -- an actual lightning stike that she survived. After that, she did a 180 degree turn, got her RN degree, and is now a good mother of four and works in a hospital.

If drugs are not involved, I have no advice for you except to remember that you love her more than anyone else on earth and you can only do so much. She has to do the rest on her own. It's her life.

I am happy to report that our daughter's episodes are now 22 years in the past and, although they lasted over six years, we all survived.

I am not happy to report that she, her two sisters, and brother refuse to have contact with me since I escaped from their father five years ago. We all had a good relationship until their NP father did a great smear campaign on me, telling them I was lying about the hidden physical abuse that had accelerated to life-threatening proportions before I was able to escape!
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"My intuition is God's gift to me. Using it is my gift to God."

BloomingintheSON · Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 345

Cookie2, I so appreciate your comments above (in March!) and meant to tell you how much your story sounds like mine. I, too, "saw" my EX undermine me for the last six years before I left (suddenly) to all of our children and their spouses. I felt so helpless but I DID mistakenly think they would support me. I had NO IDEA how disordered my EX was. All the research since I left sure did open my eyes.

But, understanding the cause of such cruelty does not ease the pain or lessen the reality of being "banned" from the family, does it?

I'm so sorry that all of us on this thread have been suffering so much. If I could wave a magic wand and hug each of you personally, I would feel so much better.

Something I read today helped me a little so I'll share with you all. Joyce Meyer said that worrying (thinking obsessively about problems) is like sitting in a rocking chair, rocking back and forth. It keeps us busy all day but doesn't get us anywhere.
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"My intuition is God's gift to me. Using it is my gift to God."

OxDrover · Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 1465 Location: Arkansas USA

I sometimes feel like one of the mothers whose child was abducted about age 11--and she never saw it again. I fell like my N/P son, now in prison, thank God, is simply his "body" on "mobile life support" and that my "real" son was abducted and his photo should be on the side of a milk carton with a caption saying "have you seen this child?"

The last time I saw my N/P I was visiting him at the prison here he is in Texas, and he was conning me again, talking about "forgiveness" and "what would Jesus do?" etc. With this Ted Bundy Charm, then all of a sudden, out of the blue, the charmer-MASk dropped like a sheep skin falling off a wolf's head, and his expression changed instantly, and for all the world he had that wild-ass Charlie Manson look in his eyes and he said, "You know, if you knew the REAL truth about my crime (murder) you wouldn't like me so much. But I'm not going to tell you. You can just believe that crap the cops believe."

I felt like he had hit me with a bucket of cold water (my adopted son was also there and saw this.) I looked at my N/P and replied, in as calm a voice as I could muster, "You put a gun to the head of a 17 year old girl, you pulled the trigger, left her to lie out in a field and animals eat her body for two weeks, went home and went to sleep. What more could you tell me that would make me like you less? That you tortured her? That you raped her? That you stuck splinters under her nails? You murdered this girl in cold blood, what else could be worse?"

He looked at me kind of in "shock"--then put the Charmer mask back on his face, resumed his "loving look" and started talking about "forgiveness and love"--

I walked away from that prison that day with no intention of ever seeing him or communicating with him again as long as I live. "Knowing better" I had almost let myself be conned into believing he had "learned" something, that all the Bible, Budda, Christ, love, forgiveness, philosophy etc that he was spouting had to have come frm somewhere INDSIDE him, but the scales fell from my eyes that day and I realized that I had been looking through the biggest pair of rosecolored glasses ever owned by a parent who loved their child.

A therapist told me 20+ years ago that I had the biggest pair of rose-colored glasses she had ever seen, and it is only NOW that I know how right she was.

My little darling has been sitting in his jail cell 400+ miles away still manipulating our family, still causing trouble, still lying, still using his gullible brother, his malicious and greedy sister-in-law and conning my poor mom who is steadily losing it. He is trying to manipulate a division between her and me (I am her only child) and to get her to "protect" him from his abusive mother who refuses to rescue him any more.

Even when she catches him in a lie, my mother wants to "give him another chance" even though he has lied to her, abused her, stolen from her, manipulated and stolen from the rest of us--she bought herself an identical pair of rose-colored glasses to those I laid down.

I am realisticly afraid that my son will have some of his ex-con friends come here and killl me in order to obtain "control" of his grandmother and get me out of the picture. I have ONLY ONE fail-safe thing that might protect my life, and that is that Iinformed him that I made a DVD of me reading a letter TO THE PAROLE BOARD for when he comes back up for parole in 4 years (jan 2011) and that if anything happens to me in the meantime, that I have left copies of this and money to hire an attorney to get it to the parole board EVERYTIME he comes up for parole until he is 75 years old. I really do think that the mother of the convict begging the board to NOT let him out would have some influence on the parole board, along with the victim's family.

I know my mother won't live to see him get out and I am glad of that. I pray to God every day that WHAT IS BEST FOR US ALL is what happens, and even though I am going through a terrible time right now, after having lost both my husband and my step-father (My "daddy" that raised me) recently along with the suicide of a foster child of mine, and the death of my mom's only brother, all in a 3 year period, along with 2 critical illnesses of my own, two surgeries for my mother, being diagnosed with PTSD from pulling my husband's body from a burning aircraft crash, having enough short term memory problems I had to retire from my profession...sounds like the "Book of Job" sometimes, but I think more like a "best of Jerry Springer Show" episode.

When I sat down with the attorney to relate all of this to him, I felt so ashamed to actually tell it all. For 7 generations our family has lived on this land and been "respectable" people. Worked hard, respected by the neighbors and the community, and now my "story" sounds so "trashy" that I know people roll their eyes and snicker.

I realize that I did not "make" my son like this, he inherited the traits from my biological father who is a psychopathic narcissist of grand proportions...yet, it still "reflects" on my reputation in the community. Embarassed

I know that my "real" friends don't laugh at me, or look down on me, and realize that they know that I have been tougher than an Ox to survive all this for so long. Fortunately, I do have a great many wonderful friends that I can TALK to, and my adopted son is a jewel of wonderful proportions. My step kids are in my corner and the only 3 first cousins I have are in my corner as well...yet, there is so much a sense of shame in it all. My N/P is so bright, he was gifted in the 99th percentile and could have "discovered the final cure for cancer" or some other wonderful thing for humaninty, and there he is, in prison for murder wasting his talents and still using them to hurt other people, even if he doesn't get anything out of it himself, he just likes to see them bleed.

After he killed the girl, I was so devestated and literally wished he was dead and the girl was in prison for his murder. It would have helped me to have closure on it. The community "supported" the victim's mother, yet I had lost as much (or more really in some ways) and only my close friends were there for me. She could have closure of a sort, and I had to continue with the LIVING MONSTER.

I've worked through most of that now, but this latest of his attacks on the family is so sly, so coniving, so EVIL, and I let it happen by not severing all communication with him. By letting down my guard, when I knew I shouldn't have. I really don't have any desire now to communicate with him, and in a lot of ways "I feel better since I gave up all hope" as far as he is concerned. I'm just sorry that he is still making my mom miserable.
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Life is lived forward, but understood backwards.

apsychgirl · Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

I am new to this board. What is an NC?