Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

I can't help but notice how long Ns tend to live. My very self-absorbed father who has some N tendencies is 85 years old. He has had serious health issues for the last 26 years-since I was a small kid (he was 54 when I was born), yet he keeps going strong. I can't get over the fact that he has had 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances at life thanks to modern medical technology-yet he's still bitter, hatefull, and nasty. Not at all grateful for life, which I find disgusting considering I have known several good people who died young and would have cherished more time with their loved ones.

My N mother is 71. Same thing with her. She's had health issues for the last 20 years that don't seem to faze her at all.

You'd think that these people who are so bitter and toxic would wear themselves down with their own venom, but NO they wear down everyone around them and live to a ripe old age.
Incredible.

I agree...It's hard to fathom it...doesn't make a lot of sense....My NM is in her 50's and has been a drug addict since she was a teenager...If I even did a fraction of the drugs that she does on any given day they would kill me instantly....and could probably kill an elephant...but she keeps going...I don't think I'll ever feel great about her dieing...so, it's not something I look forward to...but while she abuses her body on a daily basis, and the people around her, it's truly a miracle that my NM is alive....
PF dodged literal bullets in Vietnam....he was one of the few survivors out of the guys that went over there with him...

Narcs live into ripe old age. My NGM went at 98, my EGM went in her late 80's. NF who should have died five times by now is 80 and AFAIK still sitting in his recliner watching Cops and Judge Judy before ranting at the "stupid god damned sluts" on Maurie Povich, followed by an afternoon of The Military Channel. (He's into authoritarian and ethnic superiority programming, not to mention anything with T&A.) PM is just 74, may die with her next in a long series of heart attacks, but might just be mean enough to scare the grim reaper away again.

The cousin who once tried to molest me, a GC who never escaped from his NM, died at 44. Several others among my cousins who've had narc parents have died in their 40's. The ultimate GC aunt on PM's side died in her 50's, while the ultimate scapegoat uncle in the same family died at 63 after staying drunk for 50 years.

The world would be better off if the situation were reversed so that the narcs died young and their victims went on to lead longer than usual lives to make up for lost time. As the book title says, if life was fair horses would ride half the time.

[quote="QuiteGoodEnough"]PM is just 74, may die with her next in a long series of heart attacks, but might just be mean enough to scare the grim reaper away again.quote]

Ahhh.... love it! So true!

Yup, I have a feeling my NM will out live us all!

Same with my family. The narcs live forever, and the ones they torment turn their anger inwards and die young (instead of offing the Narcs that torment them). I reckon the best thing to do as the offspring of a narc is have nothing to do with them or anyone like them (Given that murdering narcs is illegal).

Serenity wrote:(Given that murdering narcs is illegal).

I've often wondered about that. There was a case in Texas (of course) some time ago in which the town bully (almost certainly a narc or psycho) was offed by some relatively normal citizen who'd been pushed too far. The killer got off, as the judge said, "because the victim needed killing".

Narcs... can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em. Proof there is no justice in the world.

Can you blame the guy up top - I wouldn't want them back either.

I know...it's some kind of freakish phenomenon that the N's live so darned long. No one in my family lived to be very old...EXCEPT MY NF! He's 83 1/2. Of course for the past several years, he's been kept alive by blood transfusions every two weeks. Talk about a vampire.

My ex mother in law also had nothing to do with her own mother. From what I realize now, her mother was/is a narc. This woman has outlived some of her own children (my ex mother in law died a few years back and was a lovely person so her children and granchildren). I think she's in her 90's and still going strong. I remember my ex mother in law saying that her mother was nasty to die.

Ns lives a long time because they're constantly dumping their unfiltered negative emotion onto others, mainly us. So their bodies don't have to deal with piles of stress. Whenever my NM tries the guilt tactic of "I could die soon one day!", my response is, "I could die before you, it does happen when the parents outlive the children". That shuts her up. Now I'm reminded of reading a woman's account of putting her NM in assisted living. NM constantly reminds her daughter that "nice Southern families" always take care of their parents. The daughter thought it was probably true and that she used to wonder why so many Southerners hang themselves in their barns.

My Christian friends like to say that God is giving these people the time and the chance to repent and change themselves. In their less generous moments they say God doesn't want these people in heaven, and neither does the devil in hell.

The question of why mean people live so long reminds me of the old saying “the good die young,” and like most old sayings, has a basis in fact. Take for example the military: top performers are usually the ones who get put in the most dangerous/critical jobs because they are the top performers, so they die faster than their less impressive contemporaries. So the natural selection process is that the best people rise rapidly or die, leaving less experienced and less capable people at the lower ranks. I believe the real world is also a reflection of this.

Enilla,

" Take for example the military: top performers are usually the ones who get put in the most dangerous/critical jobs because they are the top performers, so they die faster than their less impressive contemporaries."

I respectfully disagree with you on that...My PF was a top performer in the military..He was shrewed, manipulative, calculating and aggressive...For the military he made the perfect fit for someone who would make an excellent killing machine while surviving all the rest on both sides...and that is what he did...The government is very strategic in military and carefully chose who suits what role...If you look at who is chosen for combat roles, there will always be a lot of N's, P's and Sociopaths...They are the fearless, (stupid) warriors who kill with little to no remorse because they are brainwashed and grandoise, believing they will be a war hero...strangly enough they are honored for their Psychopathic skills...

John Lennons song makes this point... ( Another ACON who, just wanted to live in Peace...... but was shot down and died young for his beliefs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

A working class hero is something to be
There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill

( although his lyrics are down on the working class and calling them peasants my personal interpretation is that he means that it's the people in politics who think down on the "working class" and consider them peasants, in my opinion he died for the working class people he was trying to get to follow a life of Peace)

QuiteGoodenough,

"(He's into authoritarian and ethnic superiority programming," Wow! That's absurd! That is so backwards!!! and the T&A at his age!

I never gave this a thought, but I think it's true. My GM was a sweet woman who put up with my NGF's abuse and alcoholism her whole life, he steps on her foot, she gets an open sore that won't go away, gets a shunt for the antibiotics and has a stroke from the shunt and dies. He set in motion the events that led to her death after everything he put her through and the old bastard still outlived her.

I'm not really a religious person, but I hope there is some kind of justice, somehow, for people like this.

Hi Lynn, this reminds me of the ethnicity post on this board and how some people tried to leave their unhappy past behind and forge a separate identity by marrying outside their race. I do not mean sound like I'm downplaying your post as you have valid reasoning and experience, as have I who met and worked with many active and retired military people who are altruistic, self aware, and truly self sacrificing. They are brave men and women and their friendship have helped me on my long road to healing and eventually breaking free of those cowardly leeches who call themselves my mother and father. When one of them suddenly passed while I was at work I cried and cried for days, not realizing until that moment that he was my father figure who gave me more advice and encouragement in 3 semesters than my own dad did in 18 years. A large percentage of foot soldiers and combaters have never fired their weapon even when confronted with hostile enemy because they couldn’t bring themselves to kill even when their own life was at stake.

Given how large the military is, it is to be expected that sociopaths would find their way there and if they can be used, so be it.

I’ve read thoughts here that John Lennon’s mother was possibly a N, and yet John named his son after his mother. I've never followed the Beatles so I know next to nothing about Lennon. I'm sure he had good intention, many artists do.

I think people have made some good points here. I'll add that I think that part of the reason that Ns live so long (at least my N parents) is that they are so self-absorbed that they automatically feel any little change in their body and they run to the doctor to get it checked out.

I've known people who were so busy devoting their time and attention to their families or absorbed in working to support their families that they let their little aches and pains go until they became something serious or fatal.

My N parents would never do that. It is them 1st in every way, and they are very in tune with their own bodies. They run to the doc at the slightest twinge--and they are living to a ripe old age in return. I think that is a part of their longevity. Also, like someone mentioned before, they don't feel the kind of stress that we do. They dump their garbage on others and don't internalize it like most of us do.
There is a saying in my parents home country about bad people living long, "The bad weed is hard to kill." I guess it's true.

Hi Enillna,

I'm sure there are many decent people in the millitary...I'm just not sure how they rationalize their involvement in war, who's main aim is usually not peace but so called peace by force and killing...it is my experience through meeting many many Vietnam Veterans that most knew what they were doing was contributing to the death of Vietnamese....many didn't have to do it directelly but they did it by transporting weapons, flying planes that poisoned the people with Agent Orange, gave military orders...etc etc...many were not N's...and those people that weren't usually were so filled with guilt afterwards that they drank themselves to death, couldn't hold a job because of the stress and PTSD, became very withdrawn or comited suicide... There are decent people,like your friend who sounds like one....however, in my opinion the military finds a disproportionate large amount of N's who are attracted to the power, control, domination, sadism and grandoise belief that they will be a hero....The military also appeals to peoples greed with offers of free college tuition and other benifits which most G.I's never use...In Vietnam the Vietnamese were called gooks and dehumanized.....no war is just....people who participate in them are either blinded, in denial, brainwashed or N's......

Also, Australia Institute did a Health Survey and found: On average, between the years 1988 and 1997, CHILDREN of Vietnam veterans committed
suicide at a rate three times higher than children in the general population....why? my guess is that their parents came back screwed up from the war or were screwed up to begin with but now had even more problems...

"this reminds me of the ethnicity post on this board and how some people tried to leave their unhappy past behind and forge a separate identity by marrying outside their race'

Sorry, but I don't get your point about marrying outside ones race?

I also think that QuiteGoodEnoughs father is another example of an N drawn to war and military " followed by an afternoon of The Military Channel. (He's into authoritarian and ethnic superiority programming,"

A great movie called Sir, No Sir
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDk6Qal2DCI

Hi lynn, I hate for this thread to hijacked into pro versus anti military or pro versus anti war. My thoughts on the subject is that there will always be threats and attacks and perhaps that's where most of the rationalization comes from. Any leader who fails to protect his civilization form his enemy does so at the expense of his people. If you have no military, other nations will see you as weak and may chose to take your country over by force. You must have military power to maintain peace, and hopefully at some point you will not need the military power as anything but a reminder. Somebody calculated that in the 3464 years of recorded history of mankind, only 268 total years have seen no war. Some claim there has been only 26 days of world wide peace. We painfully know as N survivors that singing kumbaya around the camp fire is not going to convince nutjobs hell bent on killing us to just quit it. In that same cultural/ethnicity thread, plenty of “old world” cultures seem to foster Nish behavior and even legitimizing it.

Speaking of which, it was my round about way (passive aggressive on my part) of connecting your psycho Dad with biases against the military the same way some N survivors became baised against their own race. Not unlike myself who for several years dissed the entire math and statistic academia as being bunch of social retards living in ivory towers who regularly abuse and sexually exploit their students because, guess what, my psycho dad and his colleagues did just that and my step mom was one of those students. But of course the majority isn’t like my dad. PDad, btw, can’t stand war movies or any war documentaries, claiming it is too much for his “sensitive soul” and prefers to watch those nature documentary shows. Hey, this just reminded me of whenever I complained about his habit of biting me (and he bit hard!), he waved at whatever nature show was on and said, “See, those animals carry their young with their teeth.” Okaaaaaaay.

Anyway, psycho Dad bellyached for the past 30 years that he is dying from his type 2 diabetics, which one doesn’t even need insulin shots for, it can be controllable by diet and lifestyle changes. Despite his “sensitive health”, he went on to have more kids in his 50s and is still alive and kicking as he approach his 70s. N Mom is freakishly healthy but likes to think she will have a heart attack one day. Sometimes I think Ns just takes too long to die instead of living a long time.

lynn1234 wrote:I also think that QuiteGoodEnoughs father is another example of an N drawn to war and military " followed by an afternoon of The Military Channel. (He's into authoritarian and ethnic superiority programming,"

Spot on! He compulsively needs to know he's elevated by virtue of his nationality, his patriotism, his race, his morality, his feigned religious belief, his financial wherewithal, his... you name it. The television provides him with an electronic ego stroke, and I believe that it's every bit as important to him that those cop and judge and military shows speak to his disowned insecure and very fearful self and give him the message that because of all of those things he is safe in a world that he secretly finds very frightening.

Enilina wrote:Any leader who fails to protect his civilization form his enemy does so at the expense of his people.

I just have to say it: Any leader who conducts himself in such a way as to create enemies does so at the expense of his people, too.

That said, I'll stop my off-topic ramblings here. Be well!

Hi Enelina,

I won't say any more on this topic either so as not to hijack the thread..My closeing thought is that "an eye for an eye, will make the whole world blind." I would rather opt out of the whole N game altogether...there will always be people participating in war but it won't be me, and just cause war exists doesen't make it right to go and fight....our country ( U.S) has killed too many people for illigitimate reasons...think of all the Native Americans killed and their land taken, Vietnam was a sham, and now Iraq...cough*** (oil)...They are fear mongering to make us accept that war is necessary....they want us to hate the Arabs and muslims....just like they did with the Vietnamese....it's not acceptable in my opinion.... I want to try to live a life of love, not violence and hate....N's can be the one to do that...

My PF tried to convince me that the Vietnam War was necessary....I don't think I'm projecting my feelings for him onto the military in general...In fact, my PF had me pretty brainwashed pro-military for years and years...but yeah, it wasn't until I questioned his behavior and realized that he is an N,that I started to question many things in life including his involvement in Vietnam and war in general...

I just wanted to apologize for taking this thread in the direction I took it in. I suppose I feel very passionate about my PF's involvement in the war and I'm still trying to get to the point where I can speak about him without opening a flood gate of negative emotions and frustration which leads me onto a tangent...(which is one of the reasons I have minimized speaking about him on this forum) After being bullied and almost killed by him on several occasions, it's hard to control my emotions, if I bring him up..... I apologize........

{{{{{{{{{{{{ lynn1234 }}}}}}}}}}}}

They're like the Energizer battery. They just keep going and going and going.....

My NGM is pushing 100. Never had one introspective moment in her life.

They stick around to torment us more.

Lynn, I have issues with the military and war, too. My dad was old when he had me. He was messed up from WWII (and so were his brothers who fought). This affected how I feel about military and war in general. My dad said that he let the military radiate his face because he was afraid of being grounded. He flew in unpressurized planes and had sinus problems. Radiation like that can't be good for anyone, especially in the sinuses next to the brain.

Yep, my NM is 80 and ugly as sin but still a bundle of energy that looks like lasting forever. She doesn't EVER mention getting old, what the future might hold, illness, ditsance to clinical care, lack of mobilty etc. Her well-meaning neighbour whose job is to look after elderle people asked if she might need help around the house etc seeing as all of us children live over a thousand miles away (it is mutual - she doesn''t want to be near any of us either). Well-meaning neighbour had her head bitten off, so she approached me when we visited recently for dad's 80th. (That was a huge drama for her of course and major source of anxiety having attention on dad). My sister had only just pointed out to me that perhaps mum was NPD so I at LAST simply told concerned neighbour the truth instead of glossing over and pretending things were normal. This included pointing out that NM wasn't too proud to ask for help - it was just part of her fantasy about herself. To my surprise she accepted it all and BELIEVED me. I gave her my phone number to call in emergency but have not heard from her so far.

Enilina wrote:Ns lives a long time because they're constantly dumping their unfiltered negative emotion onto others, mainly us. So their bodies don't have to deal with piles of stress.

Well said; I agree. My NM just turned 80, and I think she's going to live forever. Her life is virtually stress-free. When my normal F died at age 49, he left her enough money (life insurance policy and cash) to be able to live the rest of her life without working (which she claims she couldn't do). Her house is paid off, she has money in the bank, and she has a huge valuable doll collection (dolls are her narcissistic supply).

She basically lives the life of a 6-year-old. She avoids most adult responsibilities, like repairing her deteriorating house and purchasing household fixtures and electronics (she delegates the latter task to me, and recently, she even manipulated me into returning to the store an unwanted jigsaw puzzle). Instead, she spends her time playing with her dolls and shopping for more, working her jigsaw puzzles and shopping for more, and escaping into TV shows. She's been in psychotherapy for 48 years; she gets NS from her therapist twice a week. The most work I've ever seen her do since my Dad died is take care of her neighbor's dog when they're away.

QuiteGoodEnough wrote:The question of why mean people live so long reminds me of the old saying “the good die young,” and like most old sayings, has a basis in fact. ... The cousin who once tried to molest me, a GC who never escaped from his NM, died at 44. Several others among my cousins who've had narc parents have died in their 40's. The ultimate GC aunt on PM's side died in her 50's, while the ultimate scapegoat uncle in the same family died at 63 after staying drunk for 50 years.

My normal F died at age 49; if he hadn't died of brain cancer, I would've blamed my NM. (Sometimes I wonder if his brain cancer was psychosomatic.) I'm 50, and I've never wanted to live to an old age. My NM and her sister were products of a NM, and my aunt committed suicide in her 40's, while my NGM continued to live into her 80's despite being a smoker.

I agree with all of these comments -- my NF for example -- he'll live forever. He doesn't internalize a thing -- he just projects out all of his negativity on others. He'll knock down everyone emotionally (financially and socially and ...) to make way for his own well-being. He'll never have any stress like the rest of us because he lives in a deluded fantasy world where he thinks he's great. Stress, by the way, will give you high cholesterol, high blood pressure, obesity, cancer, and some suggest, even early Alzheimer's...he'll never have any of that because he makes himself and his health the #1 priority above ALL ELSE.