Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

I remarried 2 months ago; my new husband has 2 grown children, and custody of the 17 yo boy. My own sons are in their 30s.

According to h, ss17 has been a troubled child since he was 7, when h got custody. I have known them for 2.5 years. I strongly suspect that ss17 is narcissistic.

He believes he is smarter than most everyone else.
He believes that he is more mature than everyone around him.
If he disagrees with anything we say, he considers what we say invalid.
If he doesn't agree with a rule, it is invalid.
He considers it an intellectual challenge to find ways to get around rules and restrictions.
He has called his father a F*&#%ing Moron to his face.
He has told me I have no right to tell him what to do.
He refuses to be accountable as to his whereabouts.
Chores are beneath him.
He expects us to justify any requests we make of him, and if he doesn't agree with our justification, he refuses.
He will lie, loudly protesting, until confronted with concrete evidence.
He, and only he, should decide what he does, and when.
He is very intelligent, but his grades in school don't always reflect this.
He doesn't see the need for homework or daily assignments, if he is able to pass the tests.

Now, I realize that teenagers are prone to rebellion, but to me this feels like it's more than the usual teenage stuff. What can be done?

Inspecter · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 9 Location: USA

http://parents.marines.com/

The military is good at teaching personal
responsibility.I am not a recruiter.

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

Military School has occurred to his father and me, but it's expensive. It would be worth it though, if it would turn him around. His arrogance and defiance are just baffling to me.

wahela · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Iowa

This is kind of typical for a 17 year old that has gone through divorce, remarriage, angry at the world stuff. Lots of kids do all of those things. I would give him the benefit of the doubt for now, until he's a bit older.

Lots of kids rebel at that age, call their father out to fight, even. Don't listen to anything, expect everything given to them.

I think that you need boundaries of steel around this guy. Be completely consistent. If he breaks the rules, he loses something, car, phone, money, etc. And don't be gentle on him either, because the world is not an easy place and your job is to prepare him for the cold cruel world.

If he can't follow the rules, he can be gone. Even at 17. He has another parent? He can go there. He can get a job and be emancipated. He will then find out the hard way what the world is about.

There is an old saying, "When I was 18, my Father knew nothing. When I turned 21, I was amazed at how much he had learned in three short years." LOL.

A lot of it is entitlement, expecting everything handed to him, anger, rebellion, etc. If Father got custody when he was seven, he could have normal father's guilt and gave too much. Not of his time and love, but of trying to make everything perfect for a child of divorce.

I'd give him a couple of years. If he's an Np, its too late anyway. Make sure he goes by the boundaries you and his Father set. If he doesn't, he doesn't need to live there. Hopefully he will come around in a few years and he will be a fine fellow.

wahela
_________________
"Expect to have hope rekindled. Expect your prayers to be answered in wonderous ways. The dry seasons of life do not last. The spring rains will come again."
-Sara BanBreathnach

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

wahela,
Thing is, he ISN'T abiding by the rules. He feels that rules don't apply to him. Anytime there is a boundary, rule, or expectation, there is a big explosion because he doesn't want to comply. You are right, there are a LOT of entitlement issues. For instance, recently when his father was out of town, he had the keys to his dads car, and would not give them to me. He told me that I had no right to the car because it was his dad's. He took advantage of the fact that his father was out of town, and he knew there was nothing I could do to him. And he kept the keys until his father returned, 2 days later.

His father and I stand together when it comes to discipline, but right now we are at an impasse, because he refuses to admit he was in the wrong. SS17 has a job, hence his own spending money. At the moment, he has lost car and internet privileges, and is still not doing his chores or apologizing.

wahela · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Iowa

If the boundaries are so low that he can keep the keys for two days, then its time for him to go. If he doesn't follow the rules, he can be gone. He will then find out how rough the world can be.

The situation as it is, he sounds like an angry child of divorce, whose father is not keeping the boundaries up. It happens a lot when children of divorce are angry, you are the stepmom and don't deserve anything. So it is up to his father to enforce the rules. If enforcing the rules means kicking the kid in the azz and loading his stuff out to the front porch, then that's what you have to do.

17 year old males are strong, and they are full of P*** and vinegar. Is he soon to be 18? Or do you have to get emancipation papers? The courts can turn him loose.

Again, if he doesn't follow the rules, and he has his own money coming in, let him use that money for things like rent. and food. in his own place. He'll soon find out how hard it is to be on your own.

wahela
_________________
"Expect to have hope rekindled. Expect your prayers to be answered in wonderous ways. The dry seasons of life do not last. The spring rains will come again."
-Sara BanBreathnach

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

He will be 18 in April, but considers himself an adult now. He is 6'-3" tall, weighs about 250 lbs, and gets loud and angry when crossed. He has never threatened me physically, but has acted threateningly towards his father when in the heat of anger. DH and I believe that the only thing that has kept him in check thus far is the fact that he realizes he is unable to support himself, and he realizes he has it much better with us than he would with his mother.

He has stated that he is "out of here" as soon as he turns 18. We realize that his father should be the primary disciplinarian, but if the father is 2,000 miles away, there isn't much he can do until he returns. I have told DH that unless he manages to turn SS17 around, he will have to make other arrangements for SS17 when he goes on his monthly business trips.

As for him being the angry child of divorce, I'm not so sure. The divorce happened 15 years ago, and he's lived with his father for 10 years. He was happy and excited about moving into my home, and changing to the school in my town. Trouble only happens when he is crossed. If DH and I would only be reasonable and do things ss17's way, there would be no trouble. Crying or Very sad

wahela · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Iowa

Well, its obvious that you cannot handle him, his own mother probably couldn't handle him. If his father is not around, then he needs to go somewhere else. Because you cannot enforce any boundaries with him. So his father either stays home, or the boy goes somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if the divorce was last month, or 15 years ago. Parents who go through a divorce have this parental guilt that they tend to "go easier" on the children than they would in a normal nondivorce household. And it sounds to me as if he knows how far he can push when his father is around, and how far he can push when his father is gone.

I have an old saying I have used before, many many times. "Not my kid, not my problem." Give it back to his father. If his father isn't around, then he needs to have somewhere for this child to go.

I still think the kid will grow out of it. But sometimes they are over 30 when they do. And as long as he doesn't live in your house, or you tell him what to do, he will be fine. So when he is responsible for himself, paying his own bills and comes over for dinner, he probably will be great.

Maintain those major boundaries. Some kid in MY house, taking the keys and not giving them back, I would have pitched his stuff on the porch, and changed the locks. As stepmother, I am sure you try to get along, try to make everything work. But it doesn't sound like its working. again, if he can't go by the rules, he needs to be gone. His father needs to be there to control this situation. If the alpha male is gone (talking about dog packs now), the beta male steps up to take over. That beta male needs to know that he will never be the top dog in your household.

wahela
_________________
"Expect to have hope rekindled. Expect your prayers to be answered in wonderous ways. The dry seasons of life do not last. The spring rains will come again."
-Sara BanBreathnach

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

I agree, Wahela, but getting his father to understand just how serious this is might be painful. No one wants to admit their child is out of control. Have you ever heard of behavior contracts, and do you think this might be worth a try?

wahela · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Iowa

I did so many contracts with the P stepdaughters that I could paper a room. Contracts only work if one is actually willing to do the things needed. And if the child is slightly or horribly spoiled, he's going to know that he doesn't need to do these things, and he will STILL get what he wants.

wahela
_________________
"Expect to have hope rekindled. Expect your prayers to be answered in wonderous ways. The dry seasons of life do not last. The spring rains will come again."
-Sara BanBreathnach

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

SS17 remains obstinate. DH had lunch with SS17 and SS21 yesterday, and even SS21 was telling SS17 he was out of line. Because SS17 refuses to cooperate, he will be moving back in with his mother and her live-in boyfriend into their tiny one-bedroom house. Since that decision was made yesterday, SS17 has given up all pretense of abiding by our house rules. I told DH this morning that if this is the way it's going to be, SS17 might as well go home to his mother today.

I am sad for DH that it has turned out this way. I did not give an ultimatum, but DH could see for himself that SS17 wasn't going to be reasonable. I feel a bit sorry for SS17's mother, because after the initial "honeymoon" period, he's going to take over and she will not be able to stop him.

"Not my kid, not my problem." repeat...

wahela · Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Iowa

Congratulations. I know it is hard to do, and being a stepmom, we hesitate to tell anybody what to do. Because we think they are entitled to work through this, and we are just standby support. But its your house, and your life, and if your DH is gone away working, you cannot live this way for long.

Even DS21 is agreeing. Remember the quote above, "When I was 17, my Father knew nothing............"

If the 17 year old has difficulty with Mom, he will eventually be out on his own, and he can find out the hard way. Some people just do not learn from suggestion, they have to learn from experience.

He has two parents. It is between him and his parents. And if he screws up at his Father's house, he gets to go back to Mom. If he screws up there, he's on his own. It is not your fault, so do not feel guilty when he fails. It is HIS agenda. HIS situation. Most kids would be grateful to have a house, people who care, etc. He blew it on his own.

Remember: "Not my kid, not my problem." He has two parents to work through this. And you have a life with your H to live. Peace and contentment are valuable commodities. Take care of your own peace and contentment. You cannot make anyone happy but yourself. If someone else is happy, its because they worked on their own happiness.
KWIM?

Wahela
_________________
"Expect to have hope rekindled. Expect your prayers to be answered in wonderous ways. The dry seasons of life do not last. The spring rains will come again."
-Sara BanBreathnach

CarolAnn64 · Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 3

Your SS sounds like my DS who is also 17.

We had our son evaluated by a psychologist and found he was definitely exhibiting signs of NPS and BPD but also suffering from depression and parent-child relational problems. (his bio-father has abandoned him)

My son is currently at an residential treatment center, learning how to cope with his anger and his depression, learning to make better choices and to mourn the "loss" of his father. We see the progress and his counselors tell me there is hope.

Btw...we did not send him of his own free will. We had him taken by a transport company. He will soon turn 18 but has chosen to stay and complete his therapy.

Your insurance would probably cover a good portion of residential treatment.

I just know that our son did not need "discipline" so much as understanding and therapy.

GingerMom · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 14

I am a little bummed today, because of all that has happened. DH has said he thought about counseling in the past for SS17, because he's had anger issues all his life, but didn't trust the mental health care available in his small town.

We now live in a larger city, with plenty of care available. However, ss17 does not believe he needs help, and as the stepmother, there is little I can do. Thankfully, DH doesn't seem to be blaming me for what has happened.

SS17 freely admits what he's done, and doesn't see anything wrong with it. In fact, he insists that I owe him an apology over the car key incident. And truly, I did nothing except ask for the keys, repeatedly, although after the first few times, I was quite angry at his refusal.

CarolAnn, I'm glad your son has decided to continue therapy. I truly wish things had gone differently for us.