Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hi, I'm a new member here and I hope this is the right place to post an introduction.

I have two children with a man who I believe has a personality disorder. He seems to have traits from being both an N and a P. Of course he thinks there is absolutely nothing wrong with him and refuses to get help. We were never married and I didn't even live with him until after I had a child with him, gotten a restraining order and then stupidly dropped it. Then we had another child.

Eventually I couldn't stand living with him any longer because he rarely works and spends most of his time lying around the house, watching tv and sleeping and criticizing every move I make. I had to take a loan out against my 401K to get enough money to move, which I defaulted on because I couldn't pay it back. He spent a little while sleeping in his car before ending up at his mothers house. Unfortunately I don't make enough money to afford enough child care and my parents give me some help but not enough so I had to rely on my ex to watch the kids sometimes while I am at work. He of course refused to watch them any other place besides my house. Then his mother threw him out of her house so he showed up at my place and refused to leave and I am still stuck with him.

To make matters worse the apartment I was living in was foreclosed on and I am now in an apartment with him and the two children and his name is on the lease. He is not being physically abusive at the moment so I don't think I could get a restraining order against him. He hasn't worked in about 2 years now and I come home from work every day to find him lying on the couch. The sink will be full of dishes, a mess everywhere and then he proceeds to criticize me me while I clean the house, bathe the children and get them to bed. He doesn't stop until I go to bed myself and then the next day he will call me names for going to bed so early. Any time I tell him I want him to leave he goes straight to the kids to tell them to say goodbye to daddy forever, mommy says he's not allowed to be daddy anymore.

So in a nutshell that is where I am at the moment. I tried to keep it short but it seems too long anyways so sorry.

Hi. Welcome to this forum. I'm very new here too and have already had kind and insightful advice from the folks here.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now. I can't imagine how awful it is. There will be others here who have had similar situations and can give you good advice. Keep posting, keep reading and good luck, be safe.

(Sorry to say I can't bring myself to use your chosen name, sounds like you are putting yourself down waaay to much. I'm sure you are far from stupid. Especially how you are able to see this man for what he is...a lazy, cruel one! I'd say he's the stupid barnacle, not you!)

Hi there, I'm relatively new myself....1-2 mos now I think, never did introduce myself just jumped in head first to posting...haha.

I have N sister and father...NOT... N husband thank god.

My best advice is to NOT try to cope with him, but to get far away from him as you can. If he's an N he will NOT change, he will NOT stop and YOU can't fix HIM....EVER!

With that being said...I don't know your finacial situation, but it sounds from what you wrote that maybe you could utilize what your county has to offer regarding legal aid, housing vouchers, child care funding but you must apply and they will take into consideration your income as well as your dependents. As a side note tell them you're being verbally abused on a daily basis and they may work harder to push you through to get the services.

Then, I would speak with your landlord regarding the abuse since he's on the lease because maybe they could give him a 30 day notice to leave the premises- if he's loud they could say he's disturbing the piece? If he verbally threatens you why couldn't you get a restraining order? Since you had an order in the past it would show repeat abuse. I'm not knowledgable with the legal matters but just making suggestions.

On an emotional level.... again, he WON'T change!!! you don't want this type of relationship or you wouldn't be posting on this board. If all else fails regarding getting him out of the apartment, then YOU need to LEAVE.
I no it's easier said then done, but there's usually a way out, you would just have to search for the answer and that's not always easy.

God did not put you on this earth to be abused, you didn't ask for this, you didn't want this, but it's still your problem none the less to deal with now. There IS a way out.....don't settle. I'm sure you don't want to be 80 years old reflecting on your life and be saying "I allowed the scum of the earth to control, manipulate and verbally abuse me for most my life".....oh hell no!!! Get out NOW!

Hi Barnacle, Welcome to the forum.

He's a real parasite in every sense of the word isnt he? Im sorry for what you and your kids are enduring.

Nows the time to check out your options.

Have you seen a lawyer?

Have you spoken to anyone about an RO?

How do you really feel about him emotionally, are you ready to get him out of your life?

The way he is using your children as emotional hostages is awful.

Read all you can, and get all the support you can, how about family and friends? Can they help you? Is there anywhere you can go.

This life is so draining, but he can be gotten out of your home - he must know that, thats why he is playing the Kids card.

Glad you found us, if we can help you, we will.

Thanks everyone, BTW stupidbarnacle is a name my daughter called me once when she was angry (she doesn't know how to swear yet) and I just thought it was really hilarious. I actually know my options at this point. I can barely afford the apartment I'm in now so I need to move into a smaller place. Hopefully I will get enough money back in my next tax return to afford to move. I've exhausted all ways of getting the state to help me with no luck. I make to much money to qualify for child care, health insurance, housing, food stamps, anything. I have no friends with who I can stay temporarily with a 4 and a 6 year old. My family is no help, my parents actually LIKE him and think I should stay with him because he is the father of my children. I can't even go to a shelter because they require you to quit your job. So I need to wait till I get my tax return and move. It will be difficult because there will be about 17 hours of childcare a week I will need to get for the 4 year old because that's how much the ex was watching him. It will be worth it though.

Any time I tell him I want him to leave he goes straight to the kids to tell them to say goodbye to daddy forever, mommy says he's not allowed to be daddy anymore.

Lowest of the low, using your children as pawns for guilt trips. I've watched this happen a few times and it's just revolting!! (along with everything else he does)
I don't have children (sadly), so like I said before I can only imagine how awful this is for you to go through.
Just wanted to say; you sound like a strong, determined woman. I hope there's someone here and/or out there who can help.

Echo had some great advice. Wish I could give you some, but have no experience in what you're going through. Other than to relate with the pain the N parasite is causing you and your family siding with him. That SUCKS!!

Hey, and I got a giggle out of imagining your little daughter calling you stupidbarnicle in her frustration. That is kinda cute!! Kids come out with the funniest things....you must be a great Mum to want to protect them so much.
Good luck with everything. Make a record of everything the freeloading N does and says (or lack of it), it may come in handy, maybe even help get your family to be on your side (as long as they are not N's too)

Welcome to the forum.

May I ask if you still have anything in your 401k or another retirement plan? You may want to consider using the additioanl funds to get out. I know how hard you will get hit on taxes and 10% penalties (or more, I guess). But it may be worth the hit to get to a place where you are safe.

I am so sorry you are going through this. You CAN get out. You absolutely can.

Actually I tried to get more money out of my 401K, they said since I didn't pay back my last loan I can't. First I have to pay back the first loan, well if I could do that I wouldn't need a second loan I am pretty hopeful about my tax return next year though. I was hit last year because of taxes on the 401K loan but this coming year I should be fine and that should be plenty of money for first and last months rent. However the period of time directly before the the move might be VERY hairy because the ex has made himself completely dependent on me for his survival.

And my family will definitely NOT come around. Ever. My mother has crazy ideas about "always looking for the good in people". No matter what. When I had the active restraining order I would sometimes hear her on the phone laughing and talking to what I thought was one of her friends. Then she would hang up and tell me she had been talking to my ex. Weird.

What about closing out the 401k vs. a loan? Of course, I realize that this is your retirement and incredibly important to your future. But your future away from this man is also incredibly important. The money will come again.

(at least that's how I look at it)

Unfortunately, it sounds like you will also have some work to do around your mother. My blood boiled hearing that she would be so completely abusive in talking to your ex - and then laughing whilst telling you about it. That's just horrific and speaks volumes.

So what now? Do you have a plan? How can we help you?

Are you actually allowed to close a 401K? I never heard of that. And I am actually done being mad at my mom, she is very childish. She always has been. My plan, at least for now is to wait for my tax return, move and refuse to give the ex my new address. I will have to badger my parents to help more with childcare for 1 more year which they won't like but at least it's only for one year. After my 4 year old starts kindergarden in september of 2010 I can drop both kids at school in the am, go to work and then pick them both up at the afterschool program on the way home from work.

Absolutely. It's YOUR money.

The issue is, you will be penalized with taxes and an IRS penalty. Talk to your plan administrator regarding your options.

If you had gotten as far as getting an RO on this man at some point, you really might want to do everything in your power to get away immediately. Every day you wait is more damage to you and your children. I know that sounds dramatic, but it's true. These people are insidious and they get under your skin - every moment counts.

I'm sorry about your mom. I'm glad you are working through that...

Hi-I am new to this site as of today. I posted a question already under ACON area. It turned out long, so I'm glad I was trying to keep it short! I have been dealing with a step-mom N for 20 years on my own. Have had enough and hope to come to some sort of peace with my dad and have some sort of decent relationship with him. While at the same time need to have NC with her. It is a balance that seems impossible at the moment. I have been in an NPD relationship in the past, and have been relationship-free for 5 years now...My mom is an undiagnosed blazing BPD, so spent more energy figuring that out earlier on in life.. I mostly have found a lot of peace and love in my life and just need to learn how to handle this situation, and in a way that I am going to be happy about and feel good about. Life is too short to be alienated from my dad. I am ready to put energy into this and get this area of my life on the right track. Thank you in advance for any input..your stories already are making me feel not-alone. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. I'm new here. I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm 28. According to the DSM criteria, I am reasonably certain my father has NPD. I believe my brother is a narcissist as well. I also just ended my first relationship ever, with a man who I believe is a narcissist and am working on maintaining a no-contact policy.

Hi From Yoyo, a new member....I tried posting with no luck or at least I don't think it posted. Rather than rewrite a whole letter, I'm testing with this one. Thanks.

hi yoyo, welcome and post away. Just click on new topic and tell us what your situation is if you are ready. I'm sure you've been around for a while reading posts so you will know this is a very supportive place with lots of great people who have much in common when it comes to suffering at the hands of N/P men and women.
Stick around and have a welcome hug

aisha

Hello everyone. I'm not going to get into a lengthy description of my relationship with my ex-N, because I am sure that it will eventually all be expressed over time.
I was with my ex-N for two years and lived with him for a little shy of a year. As I'm sure is the same for most others here, he was charming, communicative, reciprocal, available, and could be surprisingly thoughtful in the beginning. That all changed when he convinced me of moving in with him, which is something that I took very seriously and never considered before in any past relationships.
The ominous secrecy, the lying, the cheating (emotionally through e-mail and other online forums, as far as I know), the constant vacillation between Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the devaluing, the torture of silent treatment, the strict penal code ("Who do you think you are? An abusive father?"), the blaming, stonewalling, gaslighting, the venomous smiles and laughter in the face of my pain and tears, manipulations, and on and on and on....
We broke up early May, but our lease was until August. I thought I could stick it out. When I seriously began searching for another place to live, all the above evil doing increased in frequency and severity (and I truly thought that it could not possibly get worse, ha!). I asked myself and even posed it to him: "Why? I am doing exactly what you want me to; what you have made me feel guilty for; what you have asked me to do? I am giving you what you want by moving out!" Within a week, I realized that all his N characteristics forced his verbalization for me to move out, but underneath, he was terrified of being alone, bitter and amazed that I wasn't fighting him on the subject of moving out (OUCH!), and, as always, being caught in his impossible and paradoxical traps ("Leave me and stay"). I reached a point where I truly felt like I was on the verge, if not already, of going insane.
I called my family that night and said I wanted to be out of this hell that I once called my home immediately, otherwise I would be burned at the stake. I moved in, temporarily, with a friend. I developed somatic symptoms, insomnia, hypervigilence, increased startle response, moderate depersonalization, and other symptoms that I have NEVER experienced before.
I remained in contact with him, on and off, until TONIGHT!
I am here because I know I will be ruined if I allow myself to seek contact or accept contact from him. I will wither away into nothing...I have already lost so much, and to stay in touch with this malicious and empty man is suicide, at some level. I am an outgoing, extremely generous, kind, intelligent, successful, and loving woman...I need those things back! And if bringing the "old me" back isn't possible, fine; I will be more than accepting of all things new and unknown.
I need encouragement, support, and honestly, a swift kick in the ass, if I ever do more than entertain the idea of contact with him.
I said this was going to be brief...this happens all the time...I have been forced to be silent for so long...I look forward to meeting you all. I wish you all blessings on your paths and hope I can be of support to you, as well.

Zorsr, welcome and you have made a brave first step in getting this person out of your life. Whatever you do don't get back in contact with this person, not by letting him make contact with you nor by you contacting him. You ARE STILL the wonderful woman you described, just that expereinces we have with these Ns causes us such pain that I think we forget the real us and get convinced we are the inept, stupid, unworthy, and all the other rubbish they heap on us plus the low self esteem many of us seem to end up with. I can tell by your use of certain terminology that you have done some reading around PTSD and NPD, so keep reading as the more you understand about these disordered people the better equipped you are to move on and leave them behind.

Read posts on this board and you will see what you have been through, and are still going through in terms of trying to maintain NC, is very similar to the rest of us. But also take good note of the advice given in those posts too because over and over again we advise each other....go NC....stay NC....and don't be tempted to break NC!

You reminded me of my XNH husband of 7+ years, not long after it was clear the 'honeymoon' was over he started repeatedly berating me with phrases like "Do you think you are my mother?",. Be proud of yourself because I let this cycle of pulling me in and pushing me away go on for over 7 years, whereas you are one smart lady who has got out relatively quickly, well done!!! This is not to minimise my acknowledgement of your pain, I know it, I have felt it and I can feel your pain. Now is the time to take care of you, take back your life and your well-being and work on moving forward in your life to better things.

Stick around post and read.

Lots of hugs to you

Aisha

Yoyo here. Hello, again. I was all set to write another version of my initial letter when my N showed up, so I had to log off. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the kind tone of this website. Both Barnacle and Zorsr are both sort of telling my own story, so I know you all know. But I think what I've realized is that finally, just saying it outloud helps.

I've been with mine for thirty years. Sadly. Clearly, I'm terribly codependent. He (my husband) handed me a book about N's about a year ago telling me if I would just read it, then maybe things would get better. I sort of laughed, but then began reading it. Codependently, looking for myself in those pages. I'd felt "crazy" for years. Maybe he was right. But I wasn't the one looking back at me. I still couldn't believe that was what was actually wrong with him. I sort of still let it slide.

Then I got cancer. A rare form. A treatable form, but rare and without known causes or treatments. During my visit with the oncologist, my N asked "is this treatment really necessary?" The onc, showed how angered he was by the question by snapping right back at him. I felt safer. My bone marrow biopsy was terribly painful due to a back condition. The next morning, I had to go for a pet/ct scan. I was in miserable pain. I asked him to please help me wash my hair because I had to keep my bandages dry. He hemmed and hawed and with the first squirt of the faucet, water went rolling down my back. I cried. He yelled at me for crying, told me it was "my fault". I just said, leave me alone. I'll manage. On the way to the pet/ct (he had to drive me) I tried to ask him why he couldn't just wash my hair? He began screaming at me and continued for a full thirty minute drive trying to tell me that it wasn't HIS fault I got wet, it was mine. I sort of couldn't comprehend what I was hearing, and that was pretty much the beginning of the end for me.

I'm financially dependent on him (similar to Barnacle ---I'm sorry, as cute as the story is, and as someone else said, I can't refer to you as stupid. You are not, in any way, stupid.) I've been building a small account for a couple of years now, knowing the inevitable was coming, but it's still not enough. I'm trying to move on best as I can, but it's been difficult. Though after reading a wonderful book titled "Narcissitic Lovers" by Cynthia Zane and Keven Dibbles, I KNOW it's mandatory and it's left me in a terrible state of grief. To top it off, I just heard today, that my brother is dying of heart failure. Trying to move on while recovering from cancer, and while my brother is dying, is hard. So hard. I feel like I will never stop crying. My N doesn't hear me crying. Even if he did, he'd surely tell me it's my own fault.

This disorder is devastating. Trying to recover from it is devastating. I wonder how after all these years, I will ever be whole again. Thanks for listening to me. yoyo

Yoyo again: I forgot to say that me and my N share a pc, which is in his office. I will only be able to write when he's not around, which is rare. So please don't think I'm not there. I am.

Aisha, thank you for the warm welcome and the kind and supportive words you offered! I appreciate it!

Firstly, "NC" stands for what exactly?

Yes, I have done TONS of research, but I am also in the field of mental health counseling, preparing for a doctorate in clinical psychology. I think that being in the field, with a natural inclination to analyze and conceptualize plus the knowledge I have on psychopathology, worked against me in this horrific relationship. One of the advantages was that I did pick up on the red flags very early on. The disadvantage was that I did not blatantly mark them as red flags, but more as odd or eccentric qualities. As a professional in a psychiatric hospital, or in any psychiatric or mental health setting, I believe that professionals in this field tend to have a greater tolerance for abnormal behaviors and pathological characteristics. I know that I thought to myself, "Ok, so that comment was a compliment, based on his words, but there was a hint of something that seemed to contradict what he was saying. Oh stop analyzing him!" It was when I began seeing a pattern and experiencing the initial devaluation stage that I began researching. Another thing, related to being in this profession, is the amount of empathy that I had for him. I know that most of us were fooled by the N's manipulative use of his bad upbringing or unloving mother as a tug on our empathy strings, but for someone who has a passion for and is devoted to psychology and therapy, large amounts of empathy is a requirement in job description. The extent of my empathetic skills were completely taken advantage of and usurps by my ex-N. Furthermore, I fully understand the development of personality disorders. This complex development is very complex and also very interesting, as a therapist...as a therapist in a relationship with someone displaying these complexities, it's earth-shattering, energy depleting, and especially exhausting due to my obsessive determination to understand, understand, understand...I had tons of information in my head that had been twisted, flipped over, and re-conceptualized, many times over, plus the presence of my own experiences of trauma and feelings of utter instability, compounded by a whirlwind of an escalated realization of what all the insanity meant for me.

All I can be sure of right now is that I am SO much better off alone, sad, confused, and searching for answers than growing a sense of hope, that in the end will only be demolished by a N's unpredictability, complete lack of empathy, and evil enjoyment of my pain.

(FYI, by no means am I minimizing anyone's horrific experiences. I am simply stating my own experience that was heavily impacted by my profession)

Hi Kir4110, Yoyo, and Zorsr!!!

Zorsr, hi

Its insightful of you to recognise how your own professional background may have impacted on how you tolerated and excercised more compassion with the N. But at the end of the day you are a human being and hurt and suffer the same as anyone else, so be kind to yourself and take good care of you

NC means No Contact. There is a NC contract posted on this forum, sorry I am not sure exactly where nowadays, perhaps someone in the know will post a link. Anyway its invaluable!

Yoyo hi, you are not alone in thinking it was all about you being the crazy one. When I first came across writings about NPD I honestly thought that I was the one with that problem, but thank God I have disproved that and know it was my XH who was the N! I am so sorry for your situation, sometimes it seems in life that we are just being hammered with one thing after the other but I am a firm believer that after hardships comes ease, just we have to exercise a lot of patience and do everything possible to move ourselves through these hardships. I so understand your situation, though my marriage was considerably shorter than yours. After having my wealth manipulated out of me by my XNH I became financially dependant on him and around that time develop a bad spinal condition, arthritis and very unstable angina. Being quite a few years older than the N I felt I was in an extremely vulnerable position and he certainly didn't make me feel loved and secure. Once within 1 minute of a bad angina attack, which he witnessed, he told me to get off the couch and go and make him his tea! In the end his abuse, physical, emotional, mental and financial pushed me so close to the edge that I thought whatever is out there, be it poverty or lonliness, it has to be better than living with the hell that was him. You know I am so blessed that so many good friends and my family rallied round me and now I am beginning to feel like the old me, confident and independent, capable and vibrant....well getting there. You will get there yoyo, just dig deep down inside you and you will find what you need! Plus this IS a great place to come for company, support and advice. Welcome

kir4110, my gosh you poor thing, it sounds like you have had more than your share of Ns! Do post more and read others posts and you will find you are in the best of company here. I dont know your story but I pray you are not suffering too much now.

to you all

I'm new here too.

Zorsr, your situation/background and what you describe sound similar to mine, thank you for expressing it so clearly. Fortunately I did not cohabit, and it was a LDR. So it took a bit longer for me to understand enough to leave. What you said about how

'all his N characteristics forced his verbalization for me to move out, but underneath, he was terrified of being alone, bitter and amazed that I wasn't fighting him on the subject of moving out (OUCH!), and, as always, being caught in his impossible and paradoxical traps ("Leave me and stay"). '

yes, that's how I got out in the end, during a conversation when I said I had been detaching and instead of discussing, he blew up and started referring to the relationship in the past tense, and to the present in terms that made further relations impossible. And a bit later, it was also how I went NC, when he blew up in the same way at me saying I'd found a period of limited contact (LC) positive (and was about to declare a state of NC), so that I could reply easily that yes, NC was what was going to be.

Zorsr - NC is the way to go, and it will feel good. A huge relief and a burden lifted. Beware of the pity that comes back with increased understanding. I'm getting psycho-somatic symptoms now that I didn;t have before : anxiety attacks, paranoic hyper-vigilance, and those don't feel good at all. Extreme tiredness, lack of motivation also. But overall, so much better than with any contact. The N/P did not stop game-playing after the end of the 'relationship', which I had hoped for. Worse if anything.

I saw and felt red flags from the start, which I am glad preserved me from becoming involved with all my heart, though it did my head in totally. I even wrote them down. But all the data I was collecting did not enable me to draw conclusions and leave, because my field is not PDs (but does involve empathy, language and analysis) and I did not have the theoretical framework with which to analyse the emerging patterns. Much was covert. As though I only had a 'grounded theory' approach (deriving theory from data) - and trying to spot recurrences in a welter of too much information was difficult. Over the final couple of years, I tried out various concepts/labels (trying to fit data to theory), none of which quite fitted. It wasn't until after the split that I discovered NPD and psychopathy, and it all finally made sense. I know so well what you mean about the challenge of trying to understand, and the drawback of having a liberal background that engenders tolerance of difference and eccentricity.

Since the great escape, I've been looking at the past, and at other areas of my life, and trying to spot the Ns and Ps. I see this as an attempt to generalise beyond the immediate findings through additional case studies, or to validate my conclusions against experimental controls (non-Ns). It turned my head inside out and made me look at everything in a new light of knowledge and doubt. But I trust my instincts again, and I know that he was the only N I've been involved with, though I've found them in the workplace before now. My mother was most likely an N, which makes me an ACON of sorts. Some of my close friends and exes are ACONs.

And yeh, I'm conscious of sometimes over-intellectualising what happened as an escape from feeling rage, anger and embarrassment. But I need to understand as well as feel. I spent so long in a fog of misunderstanding and confusion.

He took away my sense of myself in the end, and at first I thought that it was lost for ever and I would remain a shell filled with his self-projections. But there is an inexhaustible supply of me-ness to replenish me, and I now think that even what he took he cannot not use effectively, so he has gained little and lost much NS. On the other hand, I have a lot of practical matters to deal with as a result of the last couple of years.

Look after yourself, be kind to yourself, and work on your doctorate when you are able ! This place is good.

Thanks Aisha for the supportive reply. And to everyone else for their information. I have to say it's both disheartening and comforting at the same time to read such similar stories.

Someone said she saw the signs. I do now, looking back. But never understood it while it was happening. Even the simplest things that I just disregarded as "man stuff" or "just his way", etc. --Looking back now make so much sense under the N umbrella. Many of the situations plain mean. I don't know why I couldn't see it.

Some of it benign, most just horrible, but in my eyes forgivable. That was my first mistake. All that forgiving. He was so well-liked, terribly charming, had loads of friends. I was new to the area, had just a few friends, and admired his charm and intelligence. Plus he was hilariously funny. The laughter kept me hanging on much longer than I would have otherwise. Having always had a good sense of humor myself, I was thrilled to be with this funny guy. I used to always tell everyone that "I adored him." Interesting choice of words.

But I think for me, aside from the WASTE of all those years, was the pain in finding out about all the preemptive strikes. I could never figure out why people were saying this or that to me, or why they thought this or that about me (especially his family). Even benign things. It just seemed our mutual friends (& family) had a strangely negative idea about who I was/am.) Or when I asked what someone said (in my absence), he would tell me something that made me feel crummy. I used to think, "wow, I wish he hadn't told me that..." , or "why DID he tell me that?" And he never passed along a compliment either. But it took years for me to put two and two together.

I started listening to his phone conversations behind a closed door. (He always had them behind closed doors, but I trusted him, so I never gave it a thought.) I started hearing all sorts of things he was saying about me. Not lies, per se, but twisted truths. (The outright lies came later.) That's when I really started to understand something was terribly wrong. We did marriage counseling twice to no avail. He never read the material, never practised anything we were told to do. And he flat out lied to the counselor. When I'd call him on it, he'd outright deny it. It's crazy making, to say the least.

When I realized the futility of the counseling, I suggested we stop and I would do therapy on my own. He was delighted with this (it played into his idea that I was the sick one). Since he has all the money control, he had to agree, but he did. UNTIL, I started getting stronger. That's when he said he wouldn't pay for it anymore unless I agreed to let him sit in on my sessions! I refused and said I would just write the check myself from our joint acct--something I had never done. He went straight to the bank and closed our joint account and put it in one in his own name. He's actually done that three or four times now. As soon as I get "uppity" and start demanding what I deserve. That's when I started taking odd jobs to save money in my own name. (I'm in the arts, despite long hours, it pays very poorly.) He's had all of our retirement savings in his name and had more or less convinced me that it HAD to be that way due to the type of accounts they were in. (He completely refused to do just one of them in my name).

Of course, he blamed me for his having to do it that way because he claimed I took no interest in our finances. But even after filing all our bills for years & reading two books on finance, he still insisted I took no interest and it's my fault he controls all the money. I realized that this was just a game. He never WANTED me to understand about our finances, but he never thought that as a math dyslexic, I could ever learn! It was TRUE, that until then I hadn't taken any real interest in our finances. His business is finances, mine is the arts. He was the better choice, and I trusted him with all of my heart. He'd always seemed fine with this arrangement, until I stated taking an interest, and asking questions. When I finally realized that game, he tried a whole new tactic: apparently the profession I've chosen was the wrong one and I should go get a real job like everyone else, then I'd have some money. (It was a FINE profession for 15 years...just not now.)

He writes all the checks, he pays all the bills, he keeps our accounts on computer programs that he has passworded, I have a credit card and no cash....he knows exactly what he's doing. It will be some time before I have enough saved to just leave. But I earned all that money, just as he did, and I want what is rightfully mine. However, he's been at this so long, I have no idea if anything I know about our finances is true... In the meantime, I'd like to start looking for a good lawyer. I'm wondering if there are lawyers who specialize in N divorces? He is so good, that he made me feel at fault for thirty years, and he can turn on the charm like nobody's business, and he's an olympic liar. I'm no match for him. I need some serious help.

Since I began therapy again, and started finding out about N, and have stopped falling for any of the lies (or charm), he's become much nastier. He's addicted to political blogging, and gambling, and he's lost all of his friends. I can't imagine he is not going to self-destruct in a short time--or barring that, try to destroy me more than he has already. Thanks for listening. yoyo

Hey...I can't figure out how to navigate this site or find the site organizers. I came to the intro site, but I would love to read more from the other threads. (I only even know about threads because of my lymphoma site.) How do I go from this intro part, to the other subjects? I'm really not very good at this. Thx, yoyo