Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

I need advice on how to deal with my N MIL and FIL. They both love being in control. My husband and I have been married for 23 years and have tried many different techniques, but this week took the cake. Back in June we invited them on a trip that we take annually and they declined saying they had too many things going on. So we invited our my brother in law and his family to go instead. So this week FIL confronted my H saying that he was upset that we didn't invite them (which we had). My H said we still had room for them to join us and for mom to call and get details from me. She called and I acted polite as usual. She said that dad told her to call to get the details on the trip as this was the first she heard of it. I gently said that we had asked them in June about coming with us and she said that it really didn't matter now (sure!!) what are the details. I proceeded to give her the details and the she said "Thanks for the information but we can't go anyway since we have to stay home and put up Christmas decorations and clean the house." Boy did that tick me off!!! They really didn't want to go but just wanted to be sure that we knew that they had to be the center of the drama. This type of behavior has gone on for years and they both feed off of each other. They wonder why our teen children dont come visit them! No matter where we are with them they always start off with the negatives and how we are doing things wrong. How are kids aren't doing it right, etc. What is the best way to handle this? We really need some advice. The sad thing is that we live in the same small community and my family is hundreds of miles away. They have always done this to my husband and he has stood up to them, tried the "nice" act, tried not to respond to their comments, but nothing makes it stop. Help!

Hello. They will always do whatever it takes to have attention, any attention. If you talk to them, accept gifts/money or favors. It will never stop. That's what they're about. It is their whole gig, being weird, as in not being normal. Do you often find yourself standing there looking at your spouse saying "what...." and being completely blown away. Probably, right? Confusion, control, being ridiculous that's the name of the game their playing and if your sitting at the table with them your playing it too and they always win.

So how can we effectively deal with this type of random behavior?

My 2cents, it's probably worth less, but here goes anyway.

If you are going to keep in contact with them, then understand they...

They won't change, only you can change how you react. Don't play their games...ie when your NF said to your husband that he was disappointed that they'd not been invited. He/You reply that they were invited in June but said they were busy. Then you change the topic. Don't JADE (justify,argue,defend or explain).

You don't re-invite them, don't give them ANY information. You don't pander to their hurt feelings (which will be fake anyway)
You just deal with facts. Never give them more information that you need to. N's love to know everything.

Your husband sounds like a darling, to still invite them, after they were so thoughtless and petty.

Talk to them (not in a demeaning way) as you would a slow/mentally disabled child. When they say something untrue, irrational,unfair, 'smile and say oh umm ok mum/dad', or something similar. Change the topic. Don't let them draw you in to their N games.

When they turn you down, don't seem disappointed, 'smile and say oh that's good, hope the christmas decorating goes well'. Guess what i'm trying to say, is don't let them feed of your emotions, they love dropping clangers, seeing our confusion/pain/anxiety etc then walking off. Learn to not give them any supply, not by facial expressions or by information. They are the N child, your the adult.

Thanks freethisspirit! I think your 2 cents is good advice. It is just hard knowing that we try so hard to include them in our lives and our childrens' lives but it always ends up that they make it miserable. Since my own mom and dad were not Ns, it is hard for me to understand and deal with my MIL and FIL. My husband and I made some decisions recently to not react to them and to not play into their sick games. It is very hurtful to my husband to realize his parents don't have good intentions. Neither he nor his 4 siblings have every experienced unconditional love from his parents. So sad. My husband also has some N tendencies, but is working on consciously changing as he sees that the long term effects are destructive. He wants his/our relationship with our children to be more "normal" as they grow. He has lots of anger that his parents have always taken or expected things from him but only give when it benefits them. As I think back over the last 23 years of my marriage, it makes me angry that their narcissism has always created strife and that they have always made us out to be bad people. Like the time when they asked my husband why I didn't like them. Or the time when my oldest son asked my FIL to be his confirmation sponsor and my FIL couldn't stay around for the lunch afterwards because he had something else to do, or the time when my MIL accused my mother (who lives 500 miles away) of being selfish for not coming to help watch my 3 kids when she (MIL) lives 3 miles away and told me not to ask to watch the kids because she managed 5 kids without the help of her mother. Or the time when they told my husband that I was rude for not bringing my sister or mother over to their house to visit when they were in town (like I want to expose my family to their insanity!!). Or the last time she came to watch my younger son's soccer game and then said she left a great card game for "this" (my son's team was losing) and that she doesn't like soccer.

Their emotions are so juvenile. I have done my best to shield our children from their behavior, but yet get chastised by them since our kids don't want to visit them. When the kids are around them they (MIL/FIL) are never really interested in talking to them about anything. My MIL will just ask them 3 or 4 questions in a row and will not really care to hear their answers. She is usually busy telling them about the great accomplishments of their cousin (who walks on water in their book). Our kids (all teenagers) are great people, but she somehow makes them feel like they are not good enough. When my oldest son just graduated from high school, they came to the graduation but the first thing out of my MILs mouth was not congratulations, but a negative remark about how ridiculous it was that his class (a small private school with a grad class of 45) sang a song that was humorous and something to the effect that the money spent on his education wasn't worth it if they have a graduation like that. I hate the fact that we are never good enough in their minds and I feel sad that my husband grew up feeling that way.

Nonetheless, although it is somewhat painful, we are moving further away from their comments and will do our best to not provide them with the entertainment that they have been getting on our behalf. I feel sad for them too that they cannot enjoy life and their family and my husband and I have vowed that we will treat our family better than that.

One other question: Would confronting them on their games be of any benefit? For example, if they make a snide remark like in the graduation example above, would it be beneficial to say something like "Mom, this is Brian's graduation, please find something nice to say to him on his special day." Or if they play the game like they did on the thanksgiving trip, say "Don't ever do that to us again, that is extremely rude and uncalled for."

Thanks for the feedback. It helps knowing that we are not alone and that many others have endured this type of behavior (or worse).

Nonetheless, although it is somewhat painful, we are moving further away from their comments and will do our best to not provide them with the entertainment that they have been getting on our behalf. I feel sad for them too that they cannot enjoy life and their family and my husband and I have vowed that we will treat our family better than that.

One other question: Would confronting them on their games be of any benefit? For example, if they make a snide remark like in the graduation example above, would it be beneficial to say something like "Mom, this is Brian's graduation, please find something nice to say to him on his special day." Or if they play the game like they did on the thanksgiving trip, say "Don't ever do that to us again, that is extremely rude and uncalled for."

Thanks for the feedback. It helps knowing that we are not alone and that many others have endured this type of behavior (or worse)

It is sad that your children have to deal with that sort of behaviour and sad your husband did also, but wow great he's seeing the changes he can make...that is wonderful. My hubby is in a similar situations, his sister mostly raised him and she's a raging N...he works for her. We are moving this spring far away from her, but it's been a GREAT lesson for him and he see's how he's a mild version of her and is so sorry and trying to change..it isn't easy but just the fact he's trying so hard is well fantastic. When they see what they are doing, without it being pointed out or they take us seriously, when we do. priceless.

If you are not going to go LC or NC, then you do need boundaries. For a start it's unfair for your children to hear such things and it's good for them to learn it's not acceptable and they dont' have to put up with it. You will be doing them and yourself a favour, by setting and keeping those boundaries. Best to probably discuss them with your husband and agree to back each other...because you will probably find, they may seem to take the boundaries at first BUT they will fight them, either directly or by playing games/tricks, playing you against each other, making a drama, pretending to be ill, they try all sorts when thwarted.

I think what you said above is appropriate, but know she may sulk, play up at first, she may complain to your husband, he'll need to be ready. Be ready to keep your ground, if you say something like, you won't be welcome to ________ if you can't be kind/nice/polite etc. Next time don't invite her, even if she cries, whinges etc...
She'll probably at some point play the victim.

When she says something mean, correct her and move on, don't expect an apology (if they do, it's usually at a price or fake) don't JADE. Change the subject.

Others will probably give you better advice, but you do sounds like your on the ball and doing well. good luck. :)