Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hello everyone,
I hate to keep repeating my intro, but I'm still new here and I know many of you won't remember my situation. I grew up with a physically abusive NF and an EM who never stopped him or protected me. I've been the scapegoat since I was a kid. Almost 4 mos. ago, I went NC with my NF after reaching my final straw with him. My EM and GC/ES in turn, have been punishing me by not speaking to me or returning the emails I've sent to them. I just got an email from my sister, which I'm going to post here because I need help.

Dear Gettinghappy,

I’ve done so much thinking/writing/talking/walking since your e-mail, and even
before that. I miss you and love you so much, and I’m very sad about
this situation, too. I don't like to hear that you're hurt.

I feel like you’re going to read this and think that I’ve got it all wrong.
Because you have the social work degree, sometimes it feels like what I
think/feel is just wrong and that’s a hard place to be in. I’m sorry for not
picking up the phone, too, to see how you were handling the argument.

Thank you for respecting that it is hard for me, and I’m thankful you do
understand that I don’t think Dad is narcissistic. I think you’ve made an
extreme choice to not have contact with one of our parents. No family is
perfect and I really don’t see how not having contact with a parent is healthy.
I really think that adult family members can have arguments, have some cooling
off time, and sit down at a later time to discuss their feelings and make
apologies. Does Dad know that you feel he doesn’t accept you? Does Dad know
that you feel upset when he gets angry/tries to prove his point? Do you accept
Dad for who he is? Why not e-mail him? I’d also be willing to mediate a
resolution for you and Dad.

So, even though I wasn’t there and wasn’t even part of the argument you had with
Dad, I feel like you pushed me away, too. Maybe you were just trying to keep me
out of it (and didn’t want/need my advice?). I know it puts a strain on our
relationship to talk about Mom and Dad, but maybe that’s an aspect of our
relationship where we could do some growing. Mom and Dad are kind people.
They love you and your family to death, and I have spent a lot of time
counseling both of them on this. I hear that you are at your limit with Dad, so
maybe “living under the same roof” during visits is just too much for both of
you then.

So, I guess I’d like to know how you’d like to proceed with us. I’d love to
know how you’re doing with your pregnancy, especially nearing the end. I’d love
to talk to you and the kids on the phone. I’d love to know when you have your
baby and I’d love to meet her. Is this possible?

I really hope nothing I’ve said hurts you. If that’s the case, I’m truly
sorry. I hope you’ll try to understand my perspectives; I wouldn't feel like a
good sister if I didn't share my feelings, too. I love you very much.

I'm a little shocked at the extent of her ignorance and denial. Years ago, when my mom left my dad for a period of months, everyone believed that he was an N. Now, even in my perception of his problems I'm scapegoated on that, too.

Of course, now I'm doubting my NC all over again. My therapist, my former clinical supervisor (I'm trained as a therapist), and even a therapist my NF saw have all confirmed either by proxy or actually interviewing him that my father is an N. I'm pretty mental-health savvy, being in therapy for ages, and I'd like to think that with my therapist and all of your support I'm making good decisions for myself and my family.

Can anyone help? I'm vulnerable, I'm pregnant and due in less than 2 weeks, I'm second guessing myself and I don't know what to do. I know I don't want to JADE. What should I think? What should I say? What should I do?

-GH

My reaction to your sister's email was 'ugh'. And it's all about her... I.. I... I...
If it was agreed before that your Dad is N, then I think you're right to feel that your perceptions are being doubted.

Can you get away with not replying to her till after your baby is born ?
You really don't need the hassle of dealing with this stuff at this point.
Can you put it to one side for the moment without dealing with it, or will it feel worse unresolved ?

Am I right in thinking you've been wondering whether you'll have to go NC with your mom and sis as well as your dad ?

First of all, I wouldn't do anything now...Your baby and you are the most important thing and you need to focus on that now...I speak from experience as I've been NC with NM for over a year and a half and gave birth to my daughter 8 monhs ago...NM was aware that I was pregnant and tried calling a couple times, I didn't answer, but shortly before I gave birth she was calling and hanging up. I believe your family is using your sister to triangulate, is it ironic, that this email came now?? Talk about stealing your thunder!! My NM went as far as to have a co-worker of hers call me and ask when I was coming to see NM as ALL the co-workers were planning a "Surprise Grandma Shower"...WTF??? It's ALL about you and your baby now...I asked for advice on here when I got pregnant last year and EVERYONE said the same thing...NC, NC, NC...Your parents are more than likely making sure there is an open line of communication with you so they can find out when the baby is coming so they can be the "Proud Grandparents" blah, blah, blah...

Don't second guess yourself, you are doing the right thing...I also noticed in the email your sis didn't mention that your parents have even said ANYTHING about the new baby...HMMMM? I wonder why? Maybe, because it is all about you as well it should be...You will have plenty to deal with when you have your baby, I wouldn't take on babysitting your parents emotional needs, or trying to make sure they know what they did was wrong...NOT YOUR PROBLEM...You're an adult, your decisions are your own and you don't have to explain anything to anyone

IF you feel the need to reply to your sis...keep it short and simple.... Thank her for her concern, let her know that you're just SOOO BUSY wih everything, that you haven't given your parents a second thought...

Hope everything goes great for you!!

My stomach kinda turned reading your sister's letter. That is so typical of an N or an E-she didn't directly address your specific concerns about your father. Instead, she danced around them and twisted everything to make you look like the unreasonable one. These people are shameless. I'll bet you deep down inside-she knows something is wrong with him. She just won't admit it even to herself.
My EBrother is the same way. For years he insisted I was the one with the problem-until he started seeing out parents for what they are so blatantly that he couldn't turn away anymore. Now, he knows they are sick but still doesn't have the courage to separate. So he's miserable under them.
I bet one day the same thing could happen to your sister. Because once we go NC-the N parent is highly likely to pick another sibling to dump on in our absence.

Gettinghappy wrote:Dear Gettinghappy,

I’ve done so much thinking/writing/talking/walking since your e-mail, and even
before that. I miss you and love you so much, and I’m very sad about
this situation, too. I don't like to hear that you're hurt.

I feel like you’re going to read this and think that I’ve got it all wrong.
Because you have the social work degree, sometimes it feels like what I
think/feel is just wrong and that’s a hard place to be in. I’m sorry for not
picking up the phone, too, to see how you were handling the argument.

Thank you for respecting that it is hard for me, and I’m thankful you do
understand that I don’t think Dad is narcissistic. I think you’ve made an
extreme choice to not have contact with one of our parents. No family is
perfect and I really don’t see how not having contact with a parent is healthy.
I really think that adult family members can have arguments, have some cooling
off time, and sit down at a later time to discuss their feelings and make
apologies. Does Dad know that you feel he doesn’t accept you? Does Dad know
that you feel upset when he gets angry/tries to prove his point? Do you accept
Dad for who he is? Why not e-mail him? I’d also be willing to mediate a
resolution for you and Dad.

So, even though I wasn’t there and wasn’t even part of the argument you had with
Dad, I feel like you pushed me away, too. Maybe you were just trying to keep me
out of it (and didn’t want/need my advice?). I know it puts a strain on our
relationship to talk about Mom and Dad, but maybe that’s an aspect of our
relationship where we could do some growing. Mom and Dad are kind people.
They love you and your family to death, and I have spent a lot of time
counseling both of them on this. I hear that you are at your limit with Dad, so
maybe “living under the same roof” during visits is just too much for both of
you then.

So, I guess I’d like to know how you’d like to proceed with us. I’d love to
know how you’re doing with your pregnancy, especially nearing the end. I’d love
to talk to you and the kids on the phone. I’d love to know when you have your
baby and I’d love to meet her. Is this possible?

I really hope nothing I’ve said hurts you. If that’s the case, I’m truly
sorry. I hope you’ll try to understand my perspectives; I wouldn't feel like a
good sister if I didn't share my feelings, too. I love you very much.

That was just slimy. Enmeshing, full of emotional shell game tactics, a con. It adds up to massive emotional pressure. It's slick, it doesn't sound like it at first read, but it's massive.

In no particular order, these are some of the things that struck me about your sister's email:

She bookends the email with strongly worded emotional positives -- "I don't like to hear that you're hurt," ""I love you/I miss you," "If I hurt you I'm sorry" -- almost as a formality, but in the body of the email she places the responsibility for EVERYONE ELSE'S feelings squarely on your shoulders. The beginning and end of the email do not match -- at all! -- the contents of the email in any way.

She uses a great deal of all-or-nothing language (e.g. "extreme", "perfect") that has the effect of minimizing your legitimate concerns and basically says that you have twisted and/or exaggerated an otherwise normal situation out of proportion.

She doesn't want to know "how you'd like to proceed with us" because nothing else in the email supports that this is an inquiry, nor is she a party to the disagreement. She just sprang the "Royal We" on you. (Ns love the royal we. :)

"I feel like you pushed me away" -- by having a disagreement with NF? I think not. Again, she was not a party to it. She is PLACING HERSELF in all of this, making it impossible for you to have an interaction with your father that does not involve her, because she is clearly willing to put herself in it where you keep her out of it. "Maybe you were just trying to keep me out of it" -- well, yeah, that's the normal "healthy" thing to do, to have our disagreements in private -- but then she adds "and didn’t want/need my advice?" That's a pity play, and you're supposed to feel bad about it even though her advice -- she herself -- had nothing to do with it.

She throws your degree in your face and makes like your degree is responsible for her feeling wrong. In REALITY, your degree doesn't generate her emotions; it's just a way for her to denigrate any possible disagreement you may have before you get out of the gate, by implying that anything you say is unassailable because you have a degree.

She sets vague standards for you to meet ("I really don’t see how not having contact with a parent is healthy") as though she is both judge and jury of what is healthy for you. Translation: guilt trip. And she's got them all through this email like little land mines.

She's sorry for not picking up the phone to "see how you were handling the argument"??? WTF? That's a double entendre to me, at the very least.

"I know it puts a strain on our relationship to talk about Mom and Dad, but maybe that’s an aspect of our relationship where we could do some growing." Basically, this hints at your relationship with her being less than acceptable but without actually naming anything wrong. A smack at your relationship with HER, as though she had anything to do with any of it.

"Mom and Dad are kind people. They love you and your family to death, and I have spent a lot of time counseling both of them on this." This implies that after you got done with them, they were so hurt and broken they NEEDED her counseling. How very fortunate for them that your sister was there, but don't you fall for it, Gettinghappy.

"I hope you’ll try to understand my perspectives; I wouldn't feel like a good sister if I didn't share my feelings, too." Basically, she's telling you in a very sideways sort of fashion that if you don't get back in the game -- "share your feelings" -- you're a bad sister. I would also guess that her definition of "understanding her perspectives" is knuckling under on NC, apologizing to all, feeling guilty and sad for everyone else, and making her the hero of the hour for rescuing everyone from the situation you created. Pffft.

As for the warm wishes for you and your baby and all that mess, has she been at all interested before now? Did she give a damn about your baby or your pregnancy pre-NC? Have you forbidden her contact with you in such a way that "I’d love to know when you have your baby ... is this possible?" becomes a legitimate response? Because frankly, if you have not NC'd her, she has no business asking you if it's possible, and that is just another guilt trip/slap in the face.

I haven't caught up on a lot of the posts so I don't know the backstory on this, but that letter was just skank. It would have me doubting my NC too, but not in any honest way. She's up to her eyeballs in something that, as far as I can tell from reading your post, she has no place in or part of. I know you call her an enabler, but that email sounded classic golden-child N to me. Maybe she's an N too. Female Ns often behave differently than male Ns -- more stealthily and covertly -- but they're no less N. If you get a chance, go back through the email and count all the blatant dishonesties, inaccuracies and distortions -- I'm sure you can see far more than I pointed out -- and consider that perhaps your sister is N too.

I'm glad you got out and away from these people!!! Good luck to you, and stay strong on NC!

I know you have the social work degree, but let me be the counselor because I know better than you, of course.

Do you accept Dad for who he is?

The question should really be - Why can't we accept YOU for who YOU ARE?

They love you and your family to death, and I have spent a lot of time
counseling both of them on this.

What's her hourly rate?

mrschrisc wrote:I know you have the social work degree, but let me be the counselor because I know better than you, of course.

It almost sounds like the sis is jealous of the degree for her to mention it twice, doesn't it?

Good catch, Mrschrisc! :)

Dear mercyme, I just wanted to say I love your posts:) I think you'd be one of the sharpest people i have ever met, and its such a pleasure to read your words which are equal measure humour, insight, wit and blinding strength:)

Hi Gettinghappy!

Stay strong. You are reaching out. I am so sorry about your sister, it reads to me that she's as sucked into the dysfunction as your parents. I know you feel alone and confused, but if you managed to gain the courage to go NC, don't forget that courage as you go through this.

Mercyme--you just rock! I wish you were my neighbor! Love your writing!

Jessie a.k.a. Senator Savory

*blushing now*

Thank you both. :)


P.S. On a whim, I went to the Wikipedia entry for the royal we and it's hilarious --

-- United States Navy Admiral Hyman G. Rickover told a subordinate who used the royal we: "Three groups are permitted that usage: pregnant women, royalty, and schizophrenics. Which one are you?"

-- Mark Twain once made a similar remark: "Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we.'"

Dear gettinghappy,

I am sorry to hear you recieved such an invalidating letter; I can think of at least two of us who recieved very similar letters from our closest sisters when we first had NC with our N-parents. They were strikingly similar too....relying heavily on seduction, and putting forth the myth of the happy, loving family, like you're crazy or something for thinking otherwise.

My closest sister's first two letters were all the same, like she was delusional and I was being horrible. But I told her she was being used to reel me back in, and that I wouldn't have much to do with her if she kept pressuring me to be part of a relationship was abusive to me (as well as other family members). She didn't know what to say to that and avoided me for most of the year.

Eventually N-Mum dumped her since she wasn't getting out of her what she wanted. And now my sister's letters are along the lines of `poor ME, look at what NM is doing to ME now, if only you were around to defend me....'' Its still all about her. She's never wanted to discuss NPD, and never wanted to know exactly why I think NM has it.

I suppose I was blinded once too, so I have my hopes that my sister will some day come out of her coma. But meanwhile she is dangerous for my wellbeing, because she's still enmeshed with an N, and serves her agenda like a tentacle of medusa. So I wish her well in my heart and still love the sound of her voice on the phone occasionally. But I don't think we can be close with such a big thing bewteen us.

Hi gettinghappy,

I feel for what you are going through...when you would like to get some validation and support from your sibling, instead you get a guilt trip and basicly told that you are the unreasonable one... I agree with Serenity, that hopefully your sister will come around...It did sound like your sister was being manipulated into sending that letter and may be in denial about the situation...My sister is over 10 years younger than me so she may need another 10 years to see NM for who she is... It may take time for your sister to "get it" also....Ofcorse being the GC may take longer to wake up because their abuse hasn't been as severe as ours has.

The good thing that I got out of your sisters letter was that she was calm, not hostile towards you and seemed to genuinely want a relationship with you and to be a family...(maybe at too high of a cost to you)....I remember when I went LC with NM, my sister told me that it felt like there was a "divorce in the family." ...my decision to go LC has affected my sister and the family dynamics....and I'm sure the situation is painful for your sister just as it has been for you....I would keep the door open with your sister and see if she is willing to have a relationship with you without bringing your parents into it...When my sister and I get together we have an unspoken agreement not to talk about our NM, otherwise it heads for disaster.... Maybe having an agreement like that would work for the two of you also???

When I went NC for a period of time with my NM, I too got a horrible letter from my sister and she cussed me out and called me all kinds of names...we ended up in a big arguement and didn't speak for about 6 months...I think that although your sisters letter was manipulative, childish, and a bit selfish, that atleast she wasn't angry, hostile, slandering etc...etc...which would make it harder to keep the communications open...so my take is, that maybe there is a good chance for her to accept your decision and to respect it....although it may take her time...the whole family dynamics that she has ever known are changing and her ideal family picture in her mind is being confronted....I'm trying to look at it from your angle and hers...I still think that her letter was tollerable, maybe childish but not horribly abusive...maybe I'm too tolerant though???

Basicly, as long as you do not think that your sister is an N, than what was said in the letter in my opinion is forgivable even if it is manipulative, childish, and a bit selfish.... there may still be room to work it out and work around this behavior of hers...If she too is an N, than it's a problem.....As far as my situation goes, I'm giving my sister the benifit of the doubt because of her age and GC status.....but I suppose you have to figure out if your sister is also an N or not,... and how to handle the situation from there....? Even if she isn't an N, you may still not want to deal with how she is acting?? I've come to terms with the fact that my sister blames me for going LC and thinks I'm not "forgiving enough" and may even think I'm the crazy one...but I accept it because I have a million examples that NM is an N, so I don't need to prove it to her, it's up to her to figure it out now...... until I have a hold on wether she too is an N....but for now, I try to make it work the best I can and excuse her behavior...that's how I deal with the same situation.... I get more angry with my NM for getting in between us, and to me, I'm too stuborn to let my NM win and take away the relationship with my sister....I'm trying to fight for my sister...cause the real battle in my opinion is with the N parent....

Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has responded to me here. I feel much better after having so many replies that convince me it's not all in my head. It's so easy to start questioning my resolve when I get something like that. And again, I am completely humbled at the willingness of practical strangers to take the time to help. I hope to get to know you all better as I continue through this healing journey.

Last night, I had my DH pretend to be my sister just so I could tell her everything I'd like to say (if I thought it would change anything). I think just getting it out, saying it out loud helped me take a deep breath and let some of my raw emotional response out.

I think what I'm going to do is write back very briefly and say that I see things very differently from her, that I'm uncomfortable because she's pressuring me to resume an abusive relationship, and that I'm not willing to get any further into this discussion immediately before I'm due. Leave it at that. I think that summarizes the main points of what most of you are saying and doesn't engage her, and sets a limit that I won't have this time be ruined by my FOO. It's not my job to bring them out of denial or fight for them to be on 'my side' rather than my NF's or convince them that he's an N. It's tempting to try, but why? My focus is saving myself and my own family, having a baby, and giving my kids the emotional security and protection from this horseshit I never got.

When I put together the 'notify' email list to let everyone know about the birth, I put my mother and sister on it. I figured I wouldn't call them, wouldn't accept their calls, but would at least let them know via email. Now I'm questioning that. I'm resolved to not make any decisions motivated by anger in this whole mess, but Bubblers made the point that my sister may be triangulated so my parents know when the baby's born. They can then act the proud grandparents and use this medical issue as a way to squeeze back in. Any thoughts on including or not including them on the email list?

Thank you again to everyone. I hope that with time I can give each of you feedback as you've given me here :)

I personally wouldn't notify them, what good would it do? Chances are they would use the situation to try manipulate their way back into your life and by extension your NF into your life. Your main priority now should be yourself and your family, your baby needs a strong and healthy mum and having your FOO involved in even the smallest way right now is probably counter productive.

They'll find out eventually, and if you get an angry confrontation over not letting them know immediately pass it off as being overwhelmed with the birth etc and 'forgetting' or ignore it and ignore them - whichever feels right for you.

Good luck with everything.

Do not contact your sister.

Do not let them know about the birth. Your gut has already told you not to.

Listen to yourself. Hard, I know.

To me, it's not so much whether you contact them or don't -- or even in any sort of prompt fashion -- because at some point, with nothing more than the passing of time, it will become clear that you must have had the baby. Plus, there are so very many legitimate excuses for not contacting them at the time of the birth that you don't even have to get creative. So it's entirely up to you. No harm/no foul, either way.

But know that ANY contact, ALL contact, with N family is going to involve drama. They are NOT going to respect your temporary physical weakness, or your wishes, or your privacy, or your need for peace, or your very natural desire to shut the world out for a little while as you bond with your husband and baby. Whatever contact you have with them is pretty much guaranteed to be tense, stressful and anxiety producing, even if not obviously or overtly bad.

Nor do I expect that a person who wrote that rag of an email above would restrain herself from pursuing that agenda again at the earliest opportunity, newborn baby or not. And if -- God forbid -- you have a difficult delivery and it's a little harder for you to bounce back, they won't respect that either. Above and beyond the fact that a baby's birth will not cause them to behave any better than they ever have, unfortunately, babies are a trigger for the worst of N behaviors, because all eyes are on the kid and mum and Ns can't stand that.

What I'm saying is that it could actually get *worse* because of the baby, not better. So do what you want to do, but be prepared for drama whenever you make contact. Personally, if I were in your shoes and trying to make LC work, I'd tell them -- about a WEEK after the birth. You'd at least have a trouble-free week to bond with your baby and heal physically a bit before the next round. Plus, you can plan strategy with hubby as to when and where you will receive them -- something very difficult to do while you're still in the hospital and others are dictating the flow of events. Better to be at home and just a bit recovered first, don't you think?

Good luck!!!

MercyMe wrote:But know that ANY contact, ALL contact, with N family is going to involve drama. They are NOT going to respect your temporary physical weakness, or your wishes, or your privacy, or your need for peace, or your very natural desire to shut the world out for a little while as you bond with your husband and baby. Whatever contact you have with them is pretty much guaranteed to be tense, stressful and anxiety producing, even if not obviously or overtly bad.

What MM said, amplified by the narc's incredible appetite for periods of weakness such as the post-partum period. During that time, if you react badly, there's a ready-made excuse: You're hormonally crazy.

Live like you want to live, Gettinghappy, but know that it's coming so you're not surprised by it. And be well!

Gettinghappy wrote:Of course, now I'm doubting my NC all over again. My therapist, my former clinical supervisor (I'm trained as a therapist), and even a therapist my NF saw have all confirmed either by proxy or actually interviewing him that my father is an N. I'm pretty mental-health savvy, being in therapy for ages, and I'd like to think that with my therapist and all of your support I'm making good decisions for myself and my family.

Your sister isn't evil; she's just trying to keep the family unit together (and keep the status quo).

Does it really matter whether your father is a narcissist? If he's abusive, then avoid him.

Do you feel better since you've gone NC? Do you feel like a new person ... a whole person ... alive? If so, then NC is good because it keeps you unoppressed.

You don't have to convince anyone your father is a narcissist. (We believe you.) Just move in the direction that fills you up rather than drains you. :)

I agree. You're having a baby that you don't want to be involved in abusive & triangulated relationships with your relatives. Send a message from the get go that you're not obeying any `rules', such as being obligated to have relatives involved in every milestone just because its a milestone. If you want to contact family regarding your children, it will be cause you trust them, and want them involved. I think at this point all you need to think about is actually having your baby- after that you can make decisions about you trust to be involved in your child's future.

I really hope the best for you during the birth of your child. You'll find a lot of support along the way, probably from other mothers, and these will be people you trust. You are not alone:)

I'm late in giving my inpute. My sister used to get similar (though much shorter) emails from NM. Let me translate this for you.

I’ve done so much thinking/writing/talking/walking since your e-mail, and even
before that.

I've done all the work and you haven't.

I miss you and love you so much, and I’m very sad about this situation, too.

I’m suffering which makes my love for you times 2 over your love for me.

I don't like to hear that you're hurt.

Why did you have to ruin my day?

I feel like you’re going to read this and think that I’ve got it all wrong. Because you have the social work degree, sometimes it feels like what I think/feel is just wrong and that’s a hard place to be in.

The best defense is an offence

I’m sorry for not picking up the phone, too, to see how you were handling the argument.

It was just one argument, you’re being extreme over ONE argument

I'm thankful you do understand that I don’t think Dad is narcissistic.

Hence you also think that Dad is not a narcissist since you understand why I don’t think he is a Narcissist.

I think you’ve made an extreme choice to not have contact with one of our parents. No family is perfect ..........sit down at a later time to discuss their feelings and make apologies.

You should apologize and I'm sure Dad will apologize and everything will be back to the way it was.

Does Dad know that you feel he doesn’t accept you? Does Dad know that you feel upset when he gets angry/tries to prove his point?

You, you, you, and only you don’t communicate, and haven’t adequately communicated with Dad all your life. If YOU just TELL him…..

Do you accept Dad for who he is?

You, you, you, and only you need to accept who he is. And don't ask him or us to accept who you are.

I’d also be willing to mediate a resolution for you and Dad.

If you haven’t guess by now, I’m doing all the work, I’m suffering, things need to be back the way it was, and YOU need to communicate to and accept Dad.

So, even though I wasn’t there and wasn’t even part of the argument you had with
Dad, I feel like you pushed me away, too.

Your action has neutralized my admittance in the first sentence

Maybe you were just trying to keep me out of it

Here's my crumb

Mom and Dad are kind people. They love you and your family to death,

Well, not literally to death, you know

I have spent a lot of time counseling both of them on this.

I repeat, I'm doing all the work so you need to carry your share too.

So, I guess I’d like to know how you’d like to proceed with us.

Stay in touch and just tell us what is wrong, item by item, so each item of complaint can be refuted, twisted, and gaslighted. Then everything will be back to as it used to be because you’ll realize you were wrong and had overreacted.

I’d love to
know how you’re doing with your pregnancy, especially nearing the end.

Now that I'm nearing the end of the email, I guess it’s only appropriate to inquire about your well being.

I really hope nothing I’ve said hurts you. If that’s the case, I’m truly sorry.

How can you say I hurt you when I have no idea that I hurt you. If I had no clue then that makes me an innocent.

I hope you’ll try to understand my perspectives; I wouldn't feel like a good sister if I didn't share my feelings, too.

Being a good sister means acknowledging your hurt feelings is not necessary.

-
Yes, that is a mind-numbingly manipulative letter.
I hope you don't mind if I do some more picking apart of your sister's self-serving, manipulative letter in a tongue-in-cheek way.

Dear Gettinghappy, I’ve done so much thinking/writing/talking/walking since your e-mail, and even before that. I miss you and love you so much, and I’m very sad about this situation, too. I don't like to hear that you're hurt.

I can walk AND chew gum AT THE SAME TIME. Now get ready to come closer so I can slap you hard.

I feel like you’re going to read this and think that I’ve got it all wrong. Because you have the social work degree, sometimes it feels like what I think/feel is just wrong and that’s a hard place to be in.

I'm no expert, but I play one on tv, (it's fun and it alleviates my constant boredom).

I’m sorry for not picking up the phone, too, to see how you were handling the argument.

Man, I wish I had insinuated myself into this situation sooner. This has real drama potential for me, me, me!

Thank you for respecting that it is hard for me,

Hey this is fun! Now come closer... closer....

and I’m thankful you do understand that I don’t think Dad is narcissistic. I think you’ve made an extreme choice to not have contact with one of our parents. No family is perfect and I really don’t see how not having contact with a parent is healthy. I really think that adult family members can have arguments, have some cooling off time, and sit down at a later time to discuss their feelings and make apologies.

closer... so I can slap the heck out of you. Slap, slap, slap.
You're mentally unhealthy. You're selfish. I'm going to manipulate you and turn you and bring you back into the fold. Nobody gets away from us. Feelings, smeelings - start apologizing now, twit!

Does Dad know that you feel he doesn’t accept you? Does Dad know that you feel upset when he gets angry/tries to prove his point? Do you accept Dad for who he is? Why not e-mail him? I’d also be willing to mediate a resolution for you and Dad.

This is not about you. It's all about our daddy. Oh yeah, and especially about me - the heroic mediator who's going to rack up big points for emotionally blackmailing you back to Abuse Land.
Dad isn't going to change so you had better march back, be on your best behavior, and start taking what he dishes out and liking it, missy!

So, even though I wasn’t there and wasn’t even part of the argument you had with Dad, I feel like you pushed me away, too. Maybe you were just trying to keep me out of it (and didn’t want/need my advice?).

I want to play, too! Don't leave me out. Wanna go on a trip? Start packing, we're going on a guilt trip. Don't wanna go? Too late.

I know it puts a strain on our relationship to talk about Mom and Dad, but maybe that’s an aspect of our relationship where we could do some growing. Mom and Dad are kind people. They love you and your family to death, and I have spent a lot of time counseling both of them on this. I hear that you are at your limit with Dad, so maybe “living under the same roof” during visits is just too much for both of you then.

You need to grow. Growing means that you do what I tell you to do. I want you to let mom and dad smother you to death.
I have spent many hours gossiping about you with them. It's provided countless hours of entertainment so let's keep dragging this out.

So, I guess I’d like to know how you’d like to proceed with us.

So keep me in the loop, okay?! That's part of our "growing" exercise.
I'm getting sick and tired of having to hear it second hand from the abusers... I mean, Mom and Dad.

I’d love to know how you’re doing with your pregnancy, especially nearing the end. I’d love to talk to you and the kids on the phone. I’d love to know when you have your baby and I’d love to meet her. Is this possible?

Um, you're like having a kid... or buying a puppy or something, right? See, I do care.

I really hope nothing I’ve said hurts you. If that’s the case, I’m truly sorry. I hope you’ll try to understand my perspectives; I wouldn't feel like a good sister if I didn't share my feelings, too. I love you very much.

I couldn't give a crap if I've hurt you. I'm really not sorry. My "perspective" is that I want to have fun, and inserting myself into this family drama has been the most fun I've had in YEARS. You know - sharing is caring and all that shit.
I love me! I don't really love you at all.
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delete

Hi there everyone,

HUGS to all of you. I've been MIA for a couple of days because after a great session with my therapist on Wednesday (where we talked mostly about my sister's crappy letter), I wrote a very, very brief email and sent it to my mother and sister yesterday. A couple of sentences that said:
1. Our family does not work for me.
2. I am no longer interested in having any sort of relationship with my father.
3. I feel pressure from you to resume my relationship with my father and I'm asking you to stop this and respect my feelings.
4. Please stop sending my children gifts, as it's confusing to them and makes me sad. Please don't send holiday gifts to us.
5. I will not discuss this further via email, phone, letters, etc. as I won't be pulled away from the joy that awaits me shortly.

I tried very hard to not JADE or bring up points they could argue with. People who would try to punish me - overtly or covertly - over protecting me and my family are not acting in a very loving or respectful way, and I'm done with it. So many of you were dead on with your analysis of that awful letter. It's a big, messy, guilt trip peppered with invalidation and minimization and it reeks of GC unhealthiness.

I still struggle with understanding how they're so unaware of how they fit the very definition of dysfunctional. Their actions are based on Oprah pop-psychology (no offense to O) and I don't understand how something so significant could be going on with them and they wouldn't at least consider consulting a professional. How are they so convinced they are right? My therapist thinks I need to let go of thinking that they may be rational people, but good lord, how does one survive without rationality?

I'm not sure if the letter was 100% the right thing to do, but as an ACON I'm trying to be okay with being less than perfect. It may have been a huge mistake, but I'm human and I'm entitled to make mistakes. No more striving for perfection for me. At least now I feel like I've clarified what I expect from them and if they choose to contact me, send gifts, etc. I can ignore them/send them back/delete them without feeling like I've left them wondering why. And now I feel like there are no loose ends, that I can put it to rest and not worry about it anymore.

Now I'm absolutely ready to have this baby and experience happiness without the nagging "Ugh, what do I do?" That's in large part because of all of you. I'll let you all know when it happens, and in the meantime be well and THANK YOU.

N's use psychology as a defense. They will never take a look at themselves. They are not rational people and will never be. Stop trying to understand it. You will go insane. They live in their own world.

You are a perfect imperfection. Learning, growing, becoming. You can do that. They can't.

Sounds like you're doing great....though I know it's difficult.

Let us know about the baby.

Hugs to you, GTMI

Gettinghappy wrote:...I wrote a very, very brief email and sent it to my mother and sister yesterday. A couple of sentences that said:
1. Our family does not work for me.
2. I am no longer interested in having any sort of relationship with my father.
3. I feel pressure from you to resume my relationship with my father and I'm asking you to stop this and respect my feelings.
4. Please stop sending my children gifts, as it's confusing to them and makes me sad. Please don't send holiday gifts to us.
5. I will not discuss this further via email, phone, letters, etc. as I won't be pulled away from the joy that awaits me shortly.

Well done!!! I think that if you had to respond -- and that's part of the journey from LC to NC, can't escape it -- then that was perfect. I don't think they were worthy of such a courteous (please/thankyou) approach, but that simply makes you a better person than me. :) And it's almost irrelevant: they're going to twist and manipulate anything they like regardless of how nicely or not you say it, anyway, so in the end you lose nothing.

(Please note that I may be unobjective right this very minute: I had an N neighbor violate a HUGE boundary this evening, EVER SO NICELY, and in response I ripped her head off and screamed down the bloody stump of her neck, then I felt bad for biting back and called a (much saner than I) friend, who told me bluntly that he would have done the same, so right this very second I have serious issues with nice. Just so you know. :)

What matters in the end, when you're contacting an N or N-proxy, is that you are saying what YOU want to say, and it's good enough for YOU. In that sense, it is absolutely perfect.

Gettinghappy wrote:I'm not sure if the letter was 100% the right thing to do, but as an ACON I'm trying to be okay with being less than perfect. It may have been a huge mistake, but I'm human and I'm entitled to make mistakes. No more striving for perfection for me. At least now I feel like I've clarified what I expect from them and if they choose to contact me, send gifts, etc. I can ignore them/send them back/delete them without feeling like I've left them wondering why. And now I feel like there are no loose ends, that I can put it to rest and not worry about it anymore.

You said it all. That is so perfect. Well done!!!

P.S. I loved the other analyses on your sister's letter -- they got it. It IS emotional blackmail. Your sister just wrote you a primer. :)