Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hi,

My younger brother recently told me that he and my mother had an incestual relationship. I didn't ask for too many details, but I think I believe him (who would make something like that up).
I worked out my mother was borderline/narcissist about a year ago and have since had this confirmed by a psych.
I suspect my brother is too, he was the favourite.

My questions are;

"Does anyone else, male or female have a history of this in their family? I am referring particularly to M-S incest as much more rare, not to minimise the oposite.

"Is this more likely to happen in a family where the incestually abusive adult has a personality? Or is there no correlation?"

"Why do they do it? Do they not know it is wrong? How do they rationalise it to them selves?"

Any input would be appreciated. I'm a little inside out right now.

Thanks
nm

My NMIL behaves in a very inappropriate manner with my husband more like a wife, I heard from relatives that my NMIL behaves in a similar manner with her own brothers too.. it is absolutely weird and I really dont understand how my husband who is 35yrs old can behave / let his mom behave in that manner to him.. Even I look forward for replies on this and how to talk or raise this topic with my husband who is the golden child.

nat, mother/child incest is more common than most people believe. You can find information at www.pandys.org Recommend this site to your brother because male survivors can receive support there. I'm not aware of any other online resource for male survivors (and male incest survivors).

Best of luck to you in finding the help that you need.

Thanks, Aardvark, I will follow that up.

Kind regards,

Nat.

"Is this more likely to happen in a family where the incestually abusive adult has a personality? Or is there no correlation?"

Hi Nat,

I'd say(and Ive also read it somewhere, Sam V I think) that anyone that violates the boundaries of a child is at least narcissistic. To do that, shows a massive lack of consience because the abuser(and it is abuse) knows that they are crossing taboo boundaries and yet still does it, and shows no empathy for what they are doing physically and emotionally to the child in their care.

Yes, some women will go on to have incestuous relationships with their sons(and daughters). Narcissists(male and female) see children as extensions of themselves. Particularly if they have a favourite child, they see them as a mirror of themselves, and the child tends to be emotionally terrorised into reflecting back to them what they want to see.

They do not see where they end, and the child begins. If they are in a sexual relationship with a child, its really another instance of them having a relationship with themselves.


I will try and find you some more information on this subject Nat.

Thankyou Echo,

As you probably guessed, that should have read "where the incestually abusive adult has a personality disorder."

PS.

I've read the "Wizard of Oz" analagy and it is SO true.


nat

Although I have no emprical proof, there are some very intense memories I am putting the pieces together on and it looks like my mother used me both like a "teddy bear" and perhaps sexually as well. It all happened before I was five years of age when we moved to a new home.

Then everything stoped. The whole household dynamics changed imensely and shortly after we moved, my parents separated.

My mother also had me give her away at her 2nd marriage. I felt odd doing it, but she wanted it very badly. I find it interesting that shortly after she married my step father she had me go live with my dad saying that I needed a "male role model" and it would be better for me. However, just a few years prior she was throwing my father out of the house in a rage as he wanted to get full time custody of me. Her rationale for not letting me go live with him was because of his alcholism (which is bad!). So I am left to wonder, why the change of heart? It wasn't a change of heart, she wanted me out of the way because she wanted to manipulate my step father. The more I look at her underlying motives, I realize how covert and truly manipulative she was.

My mother never allowed any of her children to have their doors closed in her home. We had no privacy.

As Ardvark has mentioned, mother - son incest is more common than one would think. It probably is not as high as father - daughter, but I think it is more like 1 out of 5 rather than about 1 out of 10.

Every time I read about mother - son incest I cringe! Thankfully as I put the memories in perspective, the trigger becomes less and less.

And my mother was the epitomy of the Narcissistic mother.

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/ps ... omplex.htm

Hi Nat, Ive found this article on Oedipus complex. I guess that this could be the end result of what happens to the boy child when the mother violates his boundaries from very early on. Its a form of narcissism in its way.

So, its just one possible result of a narcissistic mother who uses the boy child as a mirror to self-love - and the child responds by splitting its personality and forming an inappropriate "love" fixation with his mother.

PsychDoc66 wrote:My mother never allowed any of her children to have their doors closed in her home. We had no privacy.

.

When we visit my NMIL and FIL ,my husband is so scared to closed our bedroom door in the night, he leaves it open and my NMIL finds some reason or another to sleep next to him in the night saying that he is not well or something like that, initially it was shocking to me, but now I have come to a point where i feel that let the 3 of them- NMIL, FIL and husband sleep together locked up in a room and let me sleep alone peacefully looking after my kids.

I dont understand whether my husband lets he mom sleep next to him/ rather with him out of fear or willfully ?.

XN b'f has an 8 yr old daughter -- from what I saw I thought he was a very doting dad... but I now think that it was covert incest. He had the child choose his clothing to wear - although he has a 3 bed house - all her things are in his bathroom (as a wife's stuff would be).

He takes her on 'romantic' vacations Paris/Italy/Hawaii - they stay in fancy hotels - he dresses her and buys her jewelry as a man would for his wife..

When dating him I was never allowed to meet the child - he behaved like I was his 'mistress' when it came to the child.. he never wanted my things visible for the child to discover..

she sleeps in his bed and he has her photo's everywhere -. She can do no wrong whatso ever - he was obsessed with her again, on the surface it looked like a doting Dad but now I am not so sure -- I smell a rat since I learned about NPD and thier kids...

Does anyone see anything wrong here in what I have typed?...Is this also part of a NPD trait?

FloridaGrl,

Even if there is no sexual contact between this man and his daughter, this is extremely unhealthy behavior. No eight year old child should be sleeping in their parents bed (especially their fathers) unless there is a specific reason and then only for one or two night. A specific reason would be the child is having an asthma attack and needs close monitoring in case he/she stops breathing.

N behavior, possibly, but regardless of what is going on it should be stoped. It is just one step away from incest.

If the child is still underage, you might want to consider making an anonymous tip to child protective services and or social services in the area they live. Have the professionals make an assessment, if they find nothing all the better, but if something else is going on, the child has gotten help she may not realize she needs.

Remember children are not adults and are not completely aware or informed on what is "normal" and unatural behavior.

PsychDoc66:

The child is a diabetic type 1 and is on a pump. He fears that she would have a diabetic coma.... I had suggested that he buy a couch for his bedroom while she is with him.

As mentioned when I first met him I thought he was a very doting Dad, but now my thoughts are straying in another direction. The fact that i was never allowed to meet her after a year of dating, I had to hide my things from site if i stayed over.

There is definately an obsession with him for her. When I suggested he and I go away for a romantic weekend ie New York, Key West he would arrange to take the child and tell me that thats what the child wanted. He has taken her to Paris and Italy this year...I consider that a romantic vacation. I was never invited to anything of this nature. he was extremely cheap with me, even meals out were pizza or cheap restaurants. The child was taken to exepensive restaurants and he would elaborate on the great meal they had to me.

It almost seemed that he got enjoyment telling me what he did with his daughter and seeing the hurt I felt.

My sister is a detective and deals with abused children in my town... I have spoken to her about some of these things but she said that it is so very difficult to prove - unless there is absolute evidence. If she were to question him now, could be viewed as vindictiveness on my part. She suggested that the child's mother file a complaint - but I never met the mother and I dont know that she is aware of NPD - I had originally asked on these posts if I should inform the mother of NPD(anonymously) and send her a link to this site but I was advised against it by ppl on this site (and other help sites)...What are your thoughts on me sending the mother a link on NPD?

I know that he antogonizes the mother endlessly and is looking for custody of the child. She has moved a little further away from him but its not far enough!

Your thoughts are appreciated.

FloridaGrl,

Under no circumstances should you give the mother any information regarding your suspicions or perceptions. Also asking your sister to investigate would be a problem. Big conflict of interest here!

As I said, make an anonymous phone call to the local child protective services. Put it in the hands of a professional, they have Social Workers, Therapists, and are fully trained to know what to look for. It is better they do the looking from a neutral standpoint where the childs best interests are looked after.

It is like Adult Protective Services for senior citizens. One of my exe's was very concerned that his sister and brother in law were going to take advantage of his elderly mother. He called and APS went out, they found things were amiss. At first everyone was pissed of by the investigation, especially his elderly mother. She wanted to keep things under wraps and paint the picture it was all good. It was not and eventually my ex was able to go out and help clean up the mess created by his sister and brother in law. They were in a roundabout way taking advantage of his elderly mother. He told me that he was grateful that he did call, even though his mother was upset for putting the family under scrutiny.

Even if CPS does not find anything amiss, they might be able to help coach the father and daughter in regards to having a much healthier relationship. Its not always about problems, sometimes the investigation brings to light the fact that the family is lacking in various coping and communication skills. This might be the case with his obsession over his daughter and her Diabetes.

This is not your matter to involve yourself with directly. If your ex or the mother of the daughter confront you about informing CPS, you can tell the truth or not. They may hate you for it, but if they try to retaliate against you, you are protected by law for being a whistleblower. Especially if CPS did find that there was something screwy!

I reported an ex to an investigative agency as I did not believe he should be around developmentally disabled (DD) people due to his abusive and unstable nature. I am relieved I did, it was bugging me for a long time. Even if they deemed that it was unecessary to investigate, I am glad I did the ethical and right thing. The ex I am speaking about was a social worker who specialized in helping DD. Yep Narcs and abusers about even in the social work fields!

Hi FLoridagrl,

Under no circumstances should you give the mother any information regarding your suspicions or perceptions. Also asking your sister to investigate would be a problem. Big conflict of interest here!

I absolutely agree with Psychdoc here. It could backfire on you dreadfully.

The thing is that from a legal viewpoint your suspicions are subjective - and could easily be explained away by a cunning N. Child Services must take an objective viewpoint.

He would put himself over as a doting father - and unless his wife were to report him(and even then there would need to concrete evidence - very concrete) any reporting would probably not go far.

Incest between mother's and sons is very common just people do not want to believe a mother could do such a thing.
My xHNP was abused by his mother as was his brother. She really was having a relashionship with herself.
My own MNP had a incestuous relashionship with my brother and myself.
She then had one with my XHNP believe it or not.
There is a good group for male survivours of abuse in the UK and they have a really good web site :http://www.amsosa.com/
formally known as survivors Swindon.
This form of abuse is becoming more recognised and there is more and more help out there.
Peace
WG

OK

600 plus views,
14 replies,
Surely you 500 odd are not vouyeristic,
"Please say it ain't so"

nm