Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

OK, I've been thinking about men in general. I'm 51, so I guess my theory is about baby boomer men, but I'd be interested to see opinions on whether this has changed with the younger crowd. Probably a little negative given that this theory kind of leaves out any hope for that special male someone for a woman who is intelligent, reasonably successful, and expects to be treated with respect, but what I've seen.

Anyway, my theory is there are only three kinds of men in the world:

Loser Users: No need for personal achievement, lazy, spend all their efforts manipulating others to achieve, low self esteem and high need for ego gratification. These people are loose cannons with risk because they are always using other people’s money. They are high sensation seekers with no impulse control. They will do anything to feed their own ego and have no regard for others. These men feed off responsible, giving women with steady jobs. When one doesn’t work out, he just goes to another. These men are one step away from being committed or convicted, but seem to manipulate themselves out of both. They consider women to be objects for use.

Low/Mid Achievers: These people strive for personal achievement but never quite have what it takes to completely get where they want to reach. They are conservative risk takers. They feel responsible as breadwinners, considering that to be their job and ignore the contributions of the woman. They are threatened and emasculated by women who have achieved more than they have. They are often grabbed by eye candy loser user women who use them for a while and go on to more excitement. These men have long term marriages that last as long as the woman stays subservient. They consider women to be slightly lower beings, to be taken care of in the way they choose to take care of them (without a lot of regard to their woman’s real needs or feelings). However, they are dependent on the woman in their lives - just won't admit it.

High Achievers: These men have made it financially. They are high risk takers with the drive and intelligence to reach their goals. Their goals are their life. They either have a wife who has been with them all these years through the struggles and are comfortable where they are (with probably mistresses on the side), or, more likely, they have traded the 50 year old in for 25 year old eye candy. Either way, the woman is low on the totem pole in importance. Women are secretaries or accessories to them.

Any thoughts?

wahela11 · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 182 Location: Iowa

I think that perhaps there is another kind of man in the world. A man that is caring, generous, funny, smart, patient, kind, happy with himself, works hard, has time for his family, plays with the kids, helps potty train the dog, paints the house, mows the lawn, plays Santa, shows his sensitivity to his wife, is always mindful of what she likes and what is important to her.

How do I know there are many of these? My father, my grandfather, my brother, my second husband, my grandsons, my high school bf, my best friend's father and her two brothers.

any time that someone uses stereotypes, I think that all is not right here. Just as women do not fit stereotypes, men don't either. My Dad used to spend his Sundays, the only day he had off work, building us stilts, bolting three or four bikes together for tandem bikes, teaching me how to shoot guns, riding bikes together, playing crocket, etc. When I wanted a bright purple room, he painted purple. When I wanted my own dog, he traded his shotgun for a poodle puppy. And he never complained.

There are good men out there, trust me. You just have to find them.

wahela
_________________
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, each time, hoping for a different ending

brownie · Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 25

tkme, I'm sorry you're so tainted that you categorize men that way. There are more kind and generous caring men than the ones you have listed. My family and I, as a male, are fine examples. I never met a crazy psycho woman until the ex a few years back, but I wouldn't characterize all women as losers and users. Both genders have users and abusers, but they're in the minority. We, as survivors, just have to be wary of them.
Wahela, like me, was blind-sided by a person she didn't fathom could exist, but we both survived and don't hold grudges against the opposite gender.
I hope you heal and move on with life without a man until you're ready.
brownie

samvaknin · Site Admin Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 2316

In nature, male and female are distinct. She-elephants are gregarious, he-elephants solitary. Male zebra finches are loquacious - the females mute. Female green spoon worms are 200,000 times larger than their male mates. These striking differences are biological - yet they lead to differentiation in social roles and skill acquisition.

Continue to read this article here (click on this link):

http://samvak.tripod.com/sexgender.html

ilovemusic · Joined: 18 Mar 2007 Posts: 151

My hubby is 54, I'm 48

He is conservative, hard working, feels responsible for being the bread winner, very responsible when it comes to finances, loyal , despised affairs in the marriage bed, he has alot of morals, good ones, but constantly recognises my contritbution as his wife and mother of our children ........ (when we first got married he was not like that)

but his father has morals also, yet he did see women as less than himself, his wife had to go to him for money, and he would love that, what meant more to him was possessions, the every day nurturing stuff was the womans role,

i use to think that perhaps this whole concept of the dad was the head huancho and the woman stayed home and had the babies, might be a huge contritubtion to the problem with arrogant men, ( N, mysoginistic)
but that would not explain today .... today women and men play on a much more level playing field... yet we have so it seems more N men and women than ever before

unless it is just that it is more "in the open" exposed than it was back then

btw- I use to think there were only 2 categorys for men "Cains/ Abels/

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

Now that's scarey! The only one who agrees with me is Sam! I DO hope that there are good men out there who are capable of caring about a woman as a person no matter what their accomplishments, who have self esteem enough to not have to feel like they need to be in control, who have respect for women as people. Just never been across any in my lifetime. Just interested in opinions given that what I have seen is, for an accomplished, educated, intelligent woman, there's not much out there except the loser/users. Rolling Eyes

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

I do agree there are some wonderful fathers and husbands out there. I am not tainted. I am being realistic. My theory though is that those wonderful men have no interest in someone who makes twice as much money as them. I am not threatened by a man who makes more money than me. Yet it seems that the good men tend to feel the need to be more financially successful than a woman in a relationship for self esteem purposes, unless they are a loser/user.

Cookie2 · Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1405

Well I guess I'd have to agree with you and Sam! Having been let down completly by my father....husband...and only son....in other words all the men in my life I'm not so sure there are good men out there.....But then again I am biased BECAUSE of being let down by all the men in my life......I know many men who are definantly good enuf to be good friends of mine.....but thats just where I will leave it.....Not interested IN THE LEAST in anything more than good friendships Laughing

_________________
I have a photographic memory....I just don't have same day service.....................Cookie

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

I'm with you on that. I'm certainly not going to quit my job and go work for minimum wage to please some man's ego, and I've "shared" enough of what I built up to have it taken away from me by Ps (loser users). I have some great male friends, but that's as far as I want it to go. Most of the books I've read talk about how women should change the way they behave to sooth some man's ego. Not a word about accepting and respecting who and what each person is, both strengths and weaknesses, and taking control and low self esteem out of the picture. And why should men even consider changing when they have women rushing to them thinking "I need a man to be whole?" and turning their backs on their women friends while doing it? Phooey. My mother told me growing up, "Don't ever beat a man in anything you do (I think she was talking about my beating my boyfriend in pool, and he got all upset.) All these years later, I still keep asking, why???? It's no fun if I intentionally lose, and what kind of fun is that for him? Isn't life about doing your best at whatever you do? It's ok for the men. Guess I just never saw the logic or purpose in it is all.

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

My guess is you don't earn twice as much as your husband. May be wrong, but I think it threatens good men and attracts Ps. I guess, in the famous words of Sidney Poitier (altered), "I see myself as a person who happens to be female, you see me as your definition of a female." I think being financially successful ruins any chances of ever meeting a companion for a woman (at least my generation). And I became financially successful because I enjoy the challenge, I sought opportunity, and I had to be a survivor because I was the sole provider for my children (and my exP's children and him, etc.) It's not as if I ever had a choice either. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to work less hours and have the time to enjoy life with my children because I had a partner I could depend on, but never happened. Not rich by any means, particularly after having everything I built taken away to stop the abuse, but I can survive by finding my way through the dark as good as any man. Don't think it's projection because I'm not angry about it. It's like you have to hide your accomplishments around men while you listen to them brag. Just doesn't seem right. I love my male friends, but the things they say!

Echo · Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject:

Hi TK, I've been wondering how to reply to this thread. I'm really not into man-bashing. I believe that we should take each person, whatever sex, as we find them. I had a lousy experience with a P - got out of it and moved on. I didn't turn against all men because my experience of one man was bad. I can't blame all men for the actions of a disordered minority, and I don't. I refuse to be afraid of men because of one bad apple.

I also have a wonderful husband - he's my best friend too. We talk about anything and everything, share everything. What can I tell you - its peaceful, loving and kind. Money, status whatever doesnt come into it - we're a team and we do the best for us.

Echo.

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

You are very fortunate. My intent was not to man bash or demean men. I think of it as being bigger than that - maybe centuries of socialization, don't know. Categorization is helpful to me in trying to make sense of things. Just as we are categorizing people as N's or P's. I'm sure there is variability to the N's and P's that came into our lives, but there is a common thread that we share. And my hope is that there is another category out there - men who actually DO treat women with respect as people no matter what their strengths and weaknesses and are not threatened by others' accomplishments. It just seems to me that most men have a need to win with women, and they consider a woman who has achieved financially to be a deal breaker before they even bother to get to know you because of their fragile egos. I don't meet a lot of women with this problem is all.

tkme · Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

Thank you Matilda. You answered my prayers. I am so happy for those who have found happiness. You get to a point where you recognize the P for what he was, you accept responsibility for your choices, you know what to avoid, but then start to poke your head out of the hole to look around ... It's nice to know there is hope.

ilovemusic · Joined: 18 Mar 2007 Posts: 151

I have a distorted view of men at times.... and my kids help me with this

if we have only known one thing .... we have only known one thing

but i am learning

wahela11 · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 182 Location: Iowa

I think that is where my advantage is--and also my disadvantage. I grew up around loving caring men. I never met an NP in my youth. I thought all men would be like my family men. I thought if someone loved you (or at least professed to) then they became part of "the inner circle" of trust, family.

So I never learned to develop boundaries around myself because all of my life, the men (and women) around me would never intrude. So I expected that all people would be courteous and polite and honest. So I never had to learn how to raise boundaries. How naive I was.

Saying that, I have learned not to give someone the keys to the bank just because they "say" they are trustworthy. They must now earn my trust.

But I have not ran into any more NPs. I am back in the state iwas born and raised in. And I have watched carefully and do not see any NPs. I gues my advantage in being raised around certain types of people is good for me throughout my life. Because even tho I watch carefully, I haven't seen any again. I am hoping I am back on a healthy game plan, which means I do not attract the unhealthy PDs. But I worry at times that I am just not looking hard enough. All I know is if they make me uncomfortable, they are gone. I no longer will trust someone that makes me uncomfortable or feeling bad.
_________________
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, each time, hoping for a different ending