Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

tcbga · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 14

My father is undoubtly without question a narcissist. When I tell my wife I spoke to my father today she always asks how he's doing in the opera (me me me me me) and did I tell you about me?

One thing I have learned in dealing with my father is that I will never please him. All I can do is pacify him- what I mean by that is I can do a favor or task for him or buy him something very thoughtful and expensive for his birthday or Father's Day or Christmas and it will keep him in a good mood torwards me and my wife for a couple of weeks and then he's back to his old self again. To argue or question him is a waste of time. I just simply agree with him and allow him to voice his absurd opinions and let it go. My father thinks that I look up to him and that he's my mentor and that I truly respect all of his infinite wisdom and that's how I maintain any sense of sanity having him as my father. After I leave his house or I'm done talking to him on the phone I feel like I need a drink(thank goodness I don't because then I'd really be messed up). I guess you would say I'm a YES person to him, I never tell him no and I keep peace in my family. I never ask him to come to my house and I never ask to come to his and I never ask him for anything and most important I never tell him anything about me personally or my wife or my daughters.i try to keep my wife and kids away from him because of what he'll say. To devulge anything would be death because he would use that information to hurt my wife or tell someone else in my family about what I told him in confidence.

But one thing I wasn't sure was - does a person who is a narcissist have the characteristics of being paranoid as well? My father tells me on a weekly basis that certain people are out to get him and that they are damaging his home (inside and out) and he has gone so far to have 24 hour camera survelliance surrounding his home and he changed all of the locks in his house (three times & took my key to his house off my key ring when I was out of the room) and even after all that he thinks someone is breaking into his home.

leigh · Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Your father's paranoia sounds just like my dad! Recently my Dad read an article in the newspaper about bird flu in asia - something about how it now spreads from person to person, not just bird to person. Anyway, he phoned me to give me a lecture on what I need to do to prepare myself for the bird flu worldwide epidemic that he knows for certain is coming. According to him, I should build a concrete shelter in my back yard (lockable from the inside). Then I should stock it with a year's worth of food and water. Then I need to buy a gun to defend myself against all the people sick with bird flu who will try and steal my food and water - because of course bird flu will shut down all the stores and our whole economy will come to a complete standstill. He thinks that whole groups of society are out to get him, owns two guns, and continually watches CNN for signs that the world is coming to an end.

Both my parents are narcissists, although the disorder manifests itself in different ways in my mother and father. My mother made me responsible for her life - I had to solve problems for her, make her feel good, and essentially look after her needs. Her only reason for having a daughter was to raise someone who could take care of her, give her narcissistic supply, make her feel and look good ("oh what a nice little girl you have there" type thing). My father thought that his family only existed to follow his rules, wash his car, mow the lawn, be completely under his control. We had to listen to his lectures and endure being made to feel stupid and worthless because we weren't perfect.

Recently I have done some reading that has opened my eyes to the extent that my parent's personality disorders have influenced my life. I think recognition is the first step in the healing process - possibly the most difficult step. You are on the right path. A good book I have just finished reading is "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family". It has helped me to develop some coping strategies. Good luck to you.

zanderman1 · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 435

My understanding is that NPD is often combined with other PDs.
My mother seems to have NPD combined with OCPD, and she seems to have paranoid episodes occasionally. The grandiosity that leads Ns to believe that the whole world envies them naturally leads her to think that people want her possessions. She also believed (maybe still does, I don't know or care) that "people" (me?) were conspiring to have her put away in a "home" where she would have to live by other people's rules, which for her would amount to a fate worse than death. Also, on the last day we spoke, she said (loud enough for neighbors to hear) "You're just waiting for me to die so you can get my money!" But maybe that last isn't really so paranoid after all--I don't want her money (with all its strings and baggage attatched) but I can't help feeling that if she's really as miserable as she acts, she would be better off dead. But I digress. My point is I don't think it's at all uncommon for Ns to be paranoid.
Some years ago when I house-sat while she was away, NM insisted when she returned that someone had gone in her bathroom and "moved things around". (An unforgivable sin if you're OCPD.) I was the only person in her house while she was away, and I wouldn't dare set foot in that bathroom, it was too scary.
Oh, here's another one: my NM told me a few years ago to stay away from Asians or anyone who had been to Asia b/c of a flu that originated there. But maybe that's more a result of watching TV than having a personality disorder. If you watch U.S. TV news every day, you stay pumped full of fear.

Seachelle · Site Admin Joined: 22 Apr 2008 Posts: 91

My mother does have some delusional paranoia but I think it's her age and use/abuse of prescription meds. She lives alone and from time to time would say she heard footsteps outside, had people peeking in her windows, etc., even when the snow around her home was undisturbed. Now, I would say that this would be a normal fear because who hasn't been alone and heard noises? But--when she was here in my home she insisted two men were peeking at her thru a space in my fence gate and there was no one there.

She refuses to use one bathroom in her own home because she claimed a 'possum came and stared at her thru the skylight every time she sat down. She also has a 'thing' about people from India and would sometimes claim there were Indian women genuflecting outside her door. BUT since she also abuses prescription meds (and has for years) who knows if it's the drugs, her age or part of being an N and a P. So I don't know if she would normally have these delusions if she were drug-free.

She also has always easily taken personal offense at or misunderstood comments an ordinary person would brush off and will go into rages at imagined offenses/slights/criticisms so perhaps that is a form of her paranoia more so than the delusions.

My N father is not paranoid at all, just abusive and controlling.

I'm not sure paranoia is always a part of narcissism but it certainly can be.

tcbga · Joined: 22 May 2008 Posts: 14

Thank you for your feedback.

Did any of you or anyone reading this have some form of anxiety as a result of being raised by a NF or NM?

And did any of your parents have what could be described as a favorite child syndrome? My brother moved away and has broken all contact with my father and yet my father who criticizes everyone (including me and my wife and kids) thinks the reason my brother hasn't spoken to him is because of my brother's wife (She's the root of all evil in our family). My father said one day while driving to lunch "you couldn't ask for a better son then **** "10 seconds go by and then he says "and ****" (me) thanks for that warm complement. He didn't say the final comment as a means of being considerate, he said it because he has noone else and I'm the only family member who will put up with his craziness.

windinthetrees · Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 133

Yes, I can relate to this. My dad was/is the N who has to have control. He is paranoid about bears---has an elaborate trap system and guns in case one comes knocking at his door Smile

He lives in the mountains. He has OCPD for sure and always feels there will be a catastrophe at any minute . Yes, now i have GAD , depression, and very mild OCD. Meds help .

My husbands' mother (and to some extetn his dad) are the other
type of N. They are braggards and see their "boys" as extentions of themselves. It is very sad.

TruthSeeker2 · Joined: 14 May 2008 Posts: 32 Location: New York State

Hello, Everyone and tcbga who authored this topic, Wink

As I'm a newbie, too, and am still learning the ropes of this forum/blog Confused

, I haven't run across this topic until now. Please bear with me, ok? If any of you wish to learn more about my NM background and me, I've posted in three other topics so far, two of which I authored. The first topic I found and posted in is Lacking of Life Skills Before Moving Out. The other two are How and When Did You First Find Out About NP's? and Have You Ever Wished or Still Wish Your NP's Were Dead? Confused

The two topics I authored are real hotties because for we who are older and who have been searching a lifetime for the truth and found it only recently, the effect of it is mind-boggling Shocked

and turns a new and better corner for us in our lives as we journey out of NP Hell towards healing and wholeness. And if we're all honest about it, who of us hasn't at some point wished these soul-sucking vampires were dead and may still wish it as I certainly do? I came in on the lacking of life skills simply because that's the topic that popped up first - and who of us hasn't had a serious deficit somewhere in our youths of life skills that were never taught to us or that we couldn't learn under such oppressing circumstances?

tcbga, I'll now attempt to put my two cents worth in on this topic of yours. In answer to your lead question, yes, I have a NM who could be a carbon copy of your NF; and if one factors money issues into it, the hold they have on you if they have the bucks and you don't is very hard to break. One always has to come crawling back for the dough at some point. In my case, I have never been able to hold a job for very long before I was fired and left in tears of stress I couldn't handle. Therefore, I could never gain financial independence, be able to help out/contribute financially in a marriage or get any satisfaction knowing I was using the talents God gave me. That is one of the greatest regrets I have in my life. Sad

Job hunting was so traumatic I just eventually gave up. I've overcome a lot over the years but not in this one particular life skill. I was crushed too early on in my emotional development by NM to have the confidence and strength needed to negotiate the politics and performance pressures of the workplace. Crying or Very sad

Oh, yes, tcbga, I also know about pacifying them like the dangerous babies they are. It's simply a survival mechanism we use to keep them quiet for a while even though we know it won't last. Confused

Life with NP's means never being good enough, never being able to please them, make them happy, always waiting for the other shoe to drop because one never knows what to expect next from them, always trying to avoid the traps they set for you, always being put down and criticized. It means always having to be on guard, being in perpetual fight or flight mode. Living with an NP means living in constant danger, because you're living with a wild, untamed animal. This variety eats their young and rules by fear. Evil or Very Mad

So, tcbga, in answer to your question about any of us having some form of anxiety from being raised by an NP, the answer in my case is a resounding YES! In fact, it's so bad for me now because of what my husband and I are going through as NM prepares to die at a frail age 88, I'm going to ask about going on some type of meds for anxiety and panic. I've been on Prozac for depression since 1992, which has been so helpful to me, but it never fully addressed the anxiety. Shocked

Yes, tcbga, I know about the paranoia that can accompany a personality disorder like NPD, because my NM trusts no one, thinks everyone is out to do her wrong or steal from her, always accuses this one or that one of some imagined slight or wrong. It has only gotten worse with age but it was always there. Because of that, she can't have long lasting relationships with anyone and is always ready to cut people out of her life. At this point, she's very much alone and has reaped what she has sown. Shortly before I found out about NPD, I went NC on her and won't break it until she dies. Then when I found out about NPD, I realized NC was actually the right thing to do. At age 61 and after a lifetime of abuse and trauma from her, I've had about all I can take. I agree with Seachelle, whom I know from reading and posting in the other topics, that paranoia can accompany NPD but doesn't always have to. I also agree with Zanderman that NPD can combine with other personality disorders like depression, manic-depression/bipolar, Borderline PD and OCD. I think my NM has all of these, but the overriding one is NPD. Twisted Evil

How can any of us avoid bearing the scars and effects of being raised by a NP, tcbga? Like windinthetrees, I have health problems I attribute to both genetics and environment and most of them are auto-immune diseases where the body attacks itself. I honestly believe most of these conditions may never have manifested, at least not so early in my life, had I not been raised by an NP. The abuse set me up from the start with a lack of coping skills and abilities which brought on the stress, the making of poor decisions in life that would cause disease. My health problems are: Depression (Prozac), Type 2 Diabetes (Byetta and metformin), allergies and asthma (allergy shots and various other meds), thyroid cancer (hormone replacement), two types of anemia (Nascobal/Vit. B12 up the nose and Rx iron pills), a nervous skin condition (Kenalog shots and a cream compound), hypertension (Norvasc), high cholesterol (Zocor), overactive bladder (Ditropan XL), chronic urinary tract infections (antibiotics and periodic dilations/stretchings). Yet, here I am still alive and actually feeling better than ever because I've brought all these things under control with proper care and meds. Smile

Leigh, you said you have two NP's. Having one is Hell on earth, so how have you managed to survive with two? I can't imagine it. I agree with you that acknowledgment, awareness, recognition/realization is the first eyeopening step in the healing process, and that's where I am now along with a whole lot of rage. Remember, I found out about NPD only about a month and a half ago. It is a most difficult step, because while you've always known your NP is one sick puppy, you've never understood the extent and enormity of the condition until that moment of recognition. You couldn't put a name and a set of behaviors to it before. Facing the fact that you share half your DNA with what amounts to an immutable monstrosity, an emotional serial killer is a lot to process, to wrap one's mind around. Shocked

tcbga, you asked about what another NPD info site and forum for DONM's (Daughters of NM's) called the "golden child", which is the favorite child who gets all the attention and goodies showered on him. Yes, this is very common but not necessarily always the case. Just as there is a scapegoat or target child who gets the very worst the NP has to give, there are the golden children who get the very best. In my case, I'm an only child, so it doesn't apply. I would have to say as an only child, I was more the scapegoat than anything else. I was well taken care of physically but NM all but destroyed my soul and spirit. It was really only after I got saved and accepted Jesus into my life and heart at age 33 that God could begin to restore me and build a new life for me. Laughing

The importance of therapy: It was back in the mid-90's I had three years of therapy with someone who was able to give me a good sense of myself and what I had overcome, showed me how I was a person of value but who never hit on NPD. I don't know back then if NPD was still relatively kept in the background of the field of psychology, but I can see it's really getting a lot of press now. I'm in the process of choosing a counselor who has a Christian background and who has experience with NPD and other personality disorders so I can complete the process of strengthening and healing over time. I have said before, though, that complete healing won't be able to happen until NM is dead and the complications of having her still somewhere in my life are taken away for good. And that's the story in a nutshell. Wink

Keep up the good fight, folks, and remember it's not you who are the pathetic losers in life. We're already the winners, because we're courageous soldiers who march on in the face of NP obstacles to continue to learn, grow, change, mature, gain wisdom, remain aware and make progress towards wholeness and healing. NP's don't. By the very nature of their aberration, they can't even admit the need for change, so they are forever stuck in the quicksand of arrested development destined to sink. We've bypassed them ages ago. Very Happy

We're the one's having the last laugh. Laughing

_________________
Be civil to all, social with some and known by few.

lynn1234 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 718

Hi Tcbga...
I haven't seen paranoia in my NM.. Infact, she is so fearless for the most part that she takes a lot of stupid risks and has put herself in dangerous situations so many times that she seems to lack normal fear that most people have. For instance she would drink and drive, ride on a motorcycle with her boyfriend no helmet at fast speeds, has an ex-con boyfriend, shot heroin at one time, she flew on an airplane right after 9/11 when most people were too frightened to fly, My NM actually gets a rush from being the bad girl type... She loves shocking people with her fearless and bad girl image.... and doesn't like to show weakness.. she would never be afraid of anything...she thinks she can kick anyones ass or that her boyfriend and pitbull would do the trick...arogance and grandiose is very high in her case!

My father has Bipolar though and was raised by an NM.. My grandmother is the worst N I have ever known... She makes my NM look like Marry Poppins...( I feel sorry for my father he married an N just like his mother, just a different type of N) Anyway, I have seen more paranoia in a Bipolar person than an N.. I know another person who was diagnosed with Bipolar and geez.. everyday she thinks this person or that person hates her, doesn't love her enough, didn't like something or other she did for them, or someone said something to her wrong... Her paranoia is so much a part of her personality that she is hard to please and hard to be around.... but the Dr.s say it is Bipolar..

also from my experiance with my Bipolar father and the other person I was speaking about Bipolar people can be very demanding and Narcissistic with their need to be in control and have people cater to them... similar to an N you useually can't disagree with a Bipolar person or all hell will break loose... I am just thinking that some Bipolar people might be mistaken for an N at times or some could also be an N as well.

My father is Bipolar but has empathy and can show love albiet he has to be the center of attention and gets moody but not an N.. The other person I was speaking of can also show love and empathy although has bipolar and ocpd.. My friends mother was Bipolar and an N..s

My mother is an N and sometimes leans towards a psychopath..

Anyway.. to make my long story short... I haven't seen much evidence of paranoia with my NM...Paranoia can possibly be an N trait, I don't know.. But it most deffinately can be Bipolar and other psych illnesses like paranoid schizophrenia...

limited · Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 47

Hi tcbga,
My NM is mildly paranoid. She lives in an apartment with an armored door ;^) and she alway thinks that vendors are shorting her in the change when she buys something...also she always told me to beware of my friends, because friends are jealous and can have hidden agendas. Meanwhile she was the one that always treated my friends with suspicion, distrust and dislike like the devious people she thought they were.
Sometimes that came through to the point of making her sound ridiculous, like when she told my best friend and myself that we were two failures because I was divorced and my friend never got married. Well, beside the loopy conclusion she came to...she was divorced too!! Naturally for her was a different story...
But I am off topic now!