Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hey guys,
I have recently been falling into the bad pattern of doubting whether or not my N is indeed a narcissist. I've tried so desperately to see the good in him and to remember the person I fell in love with (the person that I'm sad to say, does not exist.)

I ran into him at a function the other night. His new gf was there and I didn't fall apart as I thought I might. I said hello to both of them. He then came and found me at the bar and asked if I would want to meet him tomorrow for tea. Big mistake. I don't know why I said yes. I wanted to believe that we could possibly have a friendship.

Meeting up with him was awful. He accused me of being rude to him and his girlfriend (I wasn't), then told me that he heard I was flirting with a guy at the party. "Before this goes any further" he said, "I want you to know that he's a good friend of mine. So you just think about that." He also made disparaging remarks about my physicality and some other slams about how immature I am. He berated me for not making direct eye contact with him. He repeatedly spoke of my rude and inappropriate behavior. He is still trying to control me.

He truly frightened me because the cold dark eyes that I saw seemed to belong to a completely different person. He seemed absolutely lifeless. We hugged goodbye but there was no warmth coming from him whatsoever. The whole interaction was so awful that I went home and wrote him an email that friendship was impossible. He has defriended me off Facebook, Twitter, etc. No contact is actually going to be no contact now.

So what is wrong with me that I feel sad? I recognize that he makes me feel AWFUL inside..how can I possibly miss such a person? Am I as sick as he is?

I feel like I don't even deserve to post here since I obviously am not too pro-active about my recovery if I agreed to meet up with him. I'm so sick over this and I don't know why I feel so depressed. I should feel free but I feel more trapped than ever.

Well, you are continuing the drama. That is probably part of it. You not only made contact, but you met him and then went further by emailing him a "goodbye." Drama central. It's one thing to have a moment of weakness upon seeing him - it's another thing to actively participate in making yourself miserable. Stop it!!!

He took your power and you gave it to him. He then, in true N fashion, spat all over you and D&D'd you. It's all textbook.

I know I sound harsh. But you need to know the truth so you don't do this to yourself again.

So he's D&D'd you - D&D him back. Block him on FB and similar. Block his calls. Block his emails. Do not call his friend and do not engage any further. Focus on you, on your healing - on getting over this.

I'm sorry this happened to you - perhaps this is what you needed to really put a nail in the coffin. And now, you are sad because you are mourning the fact that he REALLY IS what you thought he might be.

Big hugs to you. You will get through this if you stop engaging completely. I promise.

I know that I dug my own grave here- I'm just so desperately seeking closure and it's difficult to fully realize that I'm never going to get it.

He has cut off our online ties and I have taken his number out of my phone so I do not think there will be an opportunity for contact again. He has made it clear that I'm to be out of his life.

This is all pretty new to me- I spent most of our relationship thinking he was the greatest guy I'd ever met. I think I was deeply under his spell for the things I forgave, ignored and overlooked.

I'm trying to heal but I'm having a hard time dealing with facing the truth about him.

Thank you for your advice. I wish I had listened to everyone the first time around.

Hi blonderedhead,

Of course you should post here. You arent the first person who wanted to see the good in a narcissist, and I doubt you will be the last - we've all been there.

Its like Knoxy said, the drama high keeps alot of people enmeshed with an N. After all - he was there with his girlfriend, and he sought you out? Thats heady stuff - and then he met you and let you down again...and thats the way it always is with a narcissist. He built you up - then pulled the rug.

When we get sick of the rug being pulled, they dont have a chance to do their little power trips again.

Id say leave him to that poor girl who is going to be next in line for this abysmal treatment and kick him kerbwards if he comes again - and he just might(and no, dont be glad - you deserve better than this)

Thank you both. I have given him far more chances than he ever deserved. My biggest problem is that right now I feel like my self esteem has been completely shattered- he has really broken me down and made me feel like I have deserved everything he's done to me. I guess that's not too unusual, and can only be healed with time and no contact.

Time, no contact, and learning to believe that you are OK (he's the one that's not OK)

They really are as bad as you think they are, and best to stay away.
Sorry you had to go through this, it's a learning experience. Now you know, and NC really is the only way to deal with it.
It will get better.

Blonde - you seem to trust us here - so trust this.

He will be back.

Please block him. Don't just delete. Block him to the best of your ability - all of the way around.

I do trust you guys! It's been great to be able to communicate with people who understand what I'm dealing with. My friends are very sympathetic, and lately they have seemed to grasp that this isn't just a typical bad breakup.

I will admit now that I am a little uneasy about being so on his bad side. This is one of the reasons I have spent a lot of time apologizing to him and trying to be friends. He has a gun and while he has never threatened me with it, it still makes me very uneasy. I have seen it so I know it exists.

I'm sure I'm just driving myself even more crazy, but his lack of mental stability does not seem to be a great match for a weapon.

I'm never sure if it's safer to be in his life or out of it. He has ruined the lives of many women- I am far from the first. I am going to try to just ignore him completely and hope that he is getting enough NS from others that he can just forget about me.

just use it as a way to prove to yourself that you can not have him in your life and that even a friendship will be bad, it just confirmed to you that he is a toxic person that doesnt deserve any type of relationship with you. N or not. I knwo how you feel thought cause i did that to myself many times in the past and doubted and saw the good. but now it should confirm alot to you. Dont worry just start NC now for good! good luck


KNOXY- i wanted to ask you something , sorry for interuppting the thread...i was always curious to know what my exN never does anything , like no contact or anything. does that mean that he isnt the typical textbook N or does it just mean he had things to replace me for now or know that i want something more and tha the cant give it to me. I feel that he will nevre contact me ever again. And i know that is good, but i was just curious with that part cause it seems its very rare with N;s thanks Knoxy, hope that makes sense.

sm33 wrote:KNOXY- i wanted to ask you something , sorry for interuppting the thread...i was always curious to know what my exN never does anything , like no contact or anything. does that mean that he isnt the typical textbook N or does it just mean he had things to replace me for now or know that i want something more and tha the cant give it to me. I feel that he will nevre contact me ever again. And i know that is good, but i was just curious with that part cause it seems its very rare with N;s thanks Knoxy, hope that makes sense.

SM33 - I'm going to start a new thread so we don't hijack. :)

I am also feeling anxious because I work in a field that is a bit of a small world. I am bound to run across him again in a professional setting- or at least to constantly run into people who know him, have worked for him, etc. This is another reason I tried very hard to have a cordial relationship with him.

I know that I can go NC, but what do I do about the fact that he is still in my friends' lives (professionally speaking)? I wish there was a way to eliminate all connections to him but I refuse to give up my good friends- even though I know he will try and use them for information about me (he has done so before.)

You don't discuss him with any of those people.

You take the higher road.

If they know you were together and bring him up, just have a broken record statement for them. A neutral statement that keeps your dignity.

What he says to those people isn't your business. Other folks opinion of you isn't your business either. Just keep your head up, work hard and don't engage in the drama.

What they do with information you give them is also their business. Just be acutely aware of your audience. Equally important - be ACUTELY aware of your motivation in what you tell them. If you find yourself saying things so it gets back to him, that is contact by proxy and another formula to mess with your recovery.

blonderedhead wrote:... I wish there was a way to eliminate all connections to him but I refuse to give up my good friends- even though I know he will try and use them for information about me (he has done so before.)

Who is more important to you in your life? You, or your "good friends"?

Because that's what it may come down to. It may very well end up that you have to limit or end contact with "friends" that, following the Ns lead, try to triangulate with you, or proxy for the N in your life, or make sure you get his hints and messages, etc. If they are providing him with info, chances are good to excellent that it's not a one way street, and in actuality they have been telling you all about him as well, and you have been a full participant in all those conversations. It's a mutual transfer of information. They use you for info, and you use them for info. And N stands back and works both ends against the middle. Why shouldn't he? You're doing the same, if you are listening to as well as giving them information about the N.

To me, that is not the way a "good friend" behaves, you or them. And unfortunately, I too had to get wise to myself and to them in very painful ways before I had the courage to understand that no matter how much I wanted their friendship, in reality they were just as poisonous to me as the N, and I just as guilty as they. They did not have my best interests in mind, they did not respect my wishes, they did not respect my confidences or my safety -- what kind of friend is that? And if I could presume to ask them to do what I was unwilling to do for myself -- i.e. shut up about N -- what kind of friend was I to them? Not a very good one.

So if you are actively discussing N with them, listening to information about him, asking for news about him, and they are getting it back to N, then that's not really their fault. They're just doing what you do. It's up to you to have the maturity and strength to know that NC means NC in all directions, and it's not for others to enforce, it yours to make a new life for yourself post-N. You don't do it for N, or to punish N, or any of that. You do it for you, and you do it in all possible directions, in every place in your life. You don't call him, you don't talk about him with people you know he knows, you don't choose those same people to commiserate with about how bad he done you wrong, and when they try to tell you about him, you confidently say, "Look, I don't want to talk about him. Please don't bring him up any more." And you mean it.

But you can't do that if you're the one pulling them in by initiating or participating in conversations about him with them.

NC not only means not calling or emailing or texting or IMing or driving by an N's house. It also means actively blocking their known numbers on your phone so you don't receive calls; blocking their known email addresses so you don't receive their emails; putting their IM user IDs on our ignorelists; not checking out their facebook or twitter on the sly (yes, that's YOU cyberstalking HIM); not prodding your mutual acquaintances for hints, even subtly; confronting unwanted and uninvited messages from mutual acquaintances directly and sincerely; limiting or stopping contact altogether with people that do not respect our honest desire to not talk about N -- which we do so that we can get better and not live our lives in reference to an N that is not actually part of it, almost as if he's the dearly departed, dead but with a chair in our hearts we let no one sit on in order to honor his memory; taking responsibility for our own part in keeping the drama and never-ending back-and-forth alive; practicing diligent self-control where and when we know or suspect things could get back to him; even keeping an eye on our own motivations and desires so that we know when we'd like to break NC and deal with it, because when we want something we usually make it happen, especially when we don't acknowledge those desires honestly to ourselves.

That's what NC really is. And it has little to nothing to do with the N, or what the N does, or what the N did. It's all about me. And that's what we need in order to really heal, but sometimes we're just not ready and we just do a little NC by not taking phone calls maybe, or debating about reading an email before we inevitably do, only to find ourselves sucked back in. But that's the devastation of Ns. They will play every inch we give them, and strive against every possible boundary to get more for free. It's not up to them to make us healthy; it's up to us. NC is damned difficult. It's hard as hell. It has its own rollercoaster of ups and downs. But when you've had enough, you too will grab onto it and hold on for dear life. It's the ONLY cure for the survivor of an N.

This may sound harsh, but it's the cold hard reality. There is absolutely no point in closing the doors to your house if you don't close the open doors to the N *in your head* first. There is absolutely no point in requiring that Ns practice self-control while you refuse to do so and then lament your victimhood: if he could you wouldn't be here, and it just makes you a hypocrite, stalling your life in front of his house while he tosses out just enough scooby snacks to keep you from moving on, hooked and good. That's the choice we all have to make -- usually repeatedly -- if we have found ourselves in relationship with an N.

It's hard, but we all have the power to make choices that honor our own survival and healing. And when it finally hurts enough, we choose them -- usually after the N has destroyed a great deal of everything we loved and valued in our lives, including ourselves. In the end, it really comes down to how badly you want to be rid of them, and how long it takes you to get to a point where your unwillingness to be victimzed and hurt finally overrides your need to hang on to him trying to "find closure" or influence his life. If he's an N, you'll get neither, but lose everything you care about while trying, until you stop. And I do mean stop altogether. And that's just a damn shame, but it's the way it works.

I know it's not what you want to hear, and I'm sorry. But pretty lies won't get you to feeling good again, or make you safe, or give you your soul and your zest for life back. They just won't. And I'm really hoping you want that more than you secretly want to keep the N in your life. I wish you well. :)

It seems that by being at the same party you caused him some sort of NI, either by being friendly with his friend or because you had the potential to cause trouble between him and his g/f. Either way he was threatened enough to set up a meeting with you in which he intimidated you to scare you off. Magic thinking caused you to misinterpret his intention. Dust yourself off and promise yourself total NC, because as Knoxy says it's likely he will try to contact you at some point in the future but only for supply.

I think it's hard for some to understand how difficult it is to have total NC when you work for the same company even if you're not in the same building. I have this problem. I can't block him by phone or email, but I've created a junk folder so any emails will go in their without me seeing them. He can always phone me from another phone so I don't recognise his number. He's only done it once though because he's not stupid and knows I could report him for harassment. Then there's the problem of colleagues who mean well by asking if I've heard from "that b*****d" or tell me they've seen him. I cut conversations short, but you can't alienate everyone and unfortunately he has a bad reputation throughout the company even before I arrived. No one likes him, they all support me so I have to accept that I am going to hear things that I don't want to sometimes. As time goes on this will hopefully stop. I also may have to see him professionally on occasion but my manager is very supportive and he's been prevented from being in the same building wherever possible. Are the same restrictions possible for you?

blonderedhead wrote:I feel like I don't even deserve to post here since I obviously am not too pro-active about my recovery if I agreed to meet up with him. I'm so sick over this and I don't know why I feel so depressed. I should feel free but I feel more trapped than ever.

Please keep posting. We all make mistakes, this one was a good one....if you learn from it.

You hugged a guy, who had just shredded you? (I'm not expecting answers, but thinking, perhaps it may help you see, a pattern)
You were polite you him, but he impolitely asked you out to destroy you. You let him.
He saw you flirt with someone else (or not) and darkly warns you off. How dare he? (he wants have far too much say over what you do)
You talked about you pyhicality (sp) . Who on earth has the right to do that to anyone?

It's a pity you can't get out of his circle completely, but if you cut short people conversations, as you are doing it's a start.

You are too kind, too scared (my opinion, sorry if i'm wrong) and that gives him power and if you don't find a way of put the big girl pants on, then others like him, may hone in on you. Therapy sounds like a good tool.
It's a pity these dweebs used good people as doormats.

You are right NC is the only way. I used to hug, my abusers, out of taught respect etc....ugg it made me feel horrid.
You deserve better, your too good for the likes of him. Next time anyone talks to you like that, please get up and walk away.

Sending hugs, and hope your hurt is easing.

Jasmine, you're absolutely right, but I'd like to offer a point of clarification if I may:

There is a WORLD of difference between relationships we choose (friends, lovers) and relationships we cannot choose (coworkers, relatives, etc).

I actually just got done responding to your other post on another thread. Your situation, where you are forced to try to make your way and move forward in an environment that he controls, is very different from Blonde's situation, where the contacts are social and chosen (or at least allowed and not questioned too deeply). My Ns were fully engaged in both my personal and professional life, even my church, and it was a situation where the slander was so intense that NO ONE took my side, they just piled on. There are no restrictions in such a situation. They can do anything they like, because they have convinced everyone that YOU are plain evil and used your innocence to frame you, so people are all too happy to overlook N misdeeds and break the rules for N, because they believe N is so harshly mistreated by YOU. They turn the very people who would normally be ensuring your personal and professional protection into proxies. They use your boss, your HR, your pastor, even your police to do their dirty work, and don't bat an eye. You say they can't alienate everyone. I beg to differ. When they are in a position of power, they can and do. Easily.

I know it seems harsh. But as someone who lost both professional and personal acquauintances to N tactics, who was relentlessly pursued in every area of my life until pretty much everything was destroyed, I can tell you that when Ns are involved nothing is safe. That's why NC is so drastic. It has to be.

Now, if Blonde's ex isn't actually an N and is more of a garden variety immature jerk, everything I said is probably unnecessary. But it's human nature to think that no one is really that evil, even on a board for for N survivors from time to time!!! And that is incredibly dangerous, because it allows us to be lulled into a false security in the one place where we should be getting the ugly truth. And frankly, Blonde's ex does come off as having strong N traits (the multiple examples of lying, false accusations, disparagement and manipulating at the party) so if she truly wants to get free, she's going to have to work far harder at it than in any normal breakup with any normal ex.

Blonde's N, from what she said, is committed to putting her down, destroying her reality, and screwing with her head -- at the very least. Shouldn't she be just as committed -- if not more so -- to doing the one thing that will enable her to break free?

Again, I apologize for my tone. But these people are not normal people. They are predators, devastating, soulless. And very, very good at trapping people for years, even decades, in their web of lies and slander. Not every jerk or jackass is an N, and if they're not N they don't require this level of vigilance. But if they are N, they require all the vigilance we have and then some! Not for them, but for us.