Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Well, exN went from no contact with our toddler son (now 19 months) for about 4 months, to loosing almost all custody in court (it's 95% me, 5% him) to now e-mailing me all the time. He is playing games and it's irritating. I sent him the list of what he owes for daycare/medical to his address in Colorado, where I KNOW he lives and it got sent back to me with "wrong address" written on it--after it had obviously been opened and resealed, and there was a fingerprint on the letter itself, in lipgloss (which was not mine--ick, I know that was OW). Now I get a check for 20 bucks, which is only part of what he owes for medical (and he's 1900 behind in day care and owes me 3500 in child support arrears).

Last week he e-mailed three times to ask about our son, and then once to ask for my insurance information for his daughter (since the divorce is taking forever, he and his daughter are still on my insurance). This morning he e-mails that wants to "skype" with our son--who is only 19 months so that will be interesting .Then another e-mail that he wants to call and talk to him. Ugh. It's like his big loss in court has made him want to all of a sudden participate.

I'm beginning to wonder if OW is out of the picture and that's why he's all of a sudden taking an interest in our son, or if it's because we have ANOTHER hearing in January and he wants to look good, or if he's just being annoying. I would love to believe the interest in our son is for real, and not for show, but I know better than giving him the benefit of the doubt. If there's nothing in it for him, he won't do it.

It's so frustrating because I want my son to have a relationship with his father, but I also know his father is vindictive, mean, and a liar, and I will always be on edge as far as he's concerned. I am trying to do what's best for my son but also need to do what's best for me, and what will be best to protect him from exN in the future.

sent him the list of what he owes for daycare/medical to his address in Colorado, where I KNOW he lives and it got sent back to me with "wrong address" written on it--after it had obviously been opened and resealed, and there was a fingerprint on the letter itself, in lipgloss (which was not mine--ick, I know that was OW).

LOL! What an idiot! You need to keep that as evidence. It's very likely he's trying to look good for the upcoming hearing, so keep detailed records. What he's really going to do is make himself look like an idiot. Be careful to keep your son's best interest in mind. As he grows up he will want to know his daddy, and even though you know his father's an idiot and he'd be better off without him, your son has to figure that out for himself.

That being said, keep contact realistic. Skyping with a 19 month old is ridiculous. He might as well record a video of himself and send it. Your baby isn't going to know who that is. In court make sure it's specified about what kind of contact and how often. I think your ex is trying to get under your skin and look like a great dad at the same time. He'll get bored with it after a while, trust me.

-Rebecca

The FOTY thing lasts as long as they are Ns drawing breath.

Sounds like your XN is about as big an idiot as mine!

wenzip.. is that really true? Can you share some general insights into the FOTY behavior and other things parental that I might expect moving forward. I was just hoping in the back of my mind he'd get bored of the whole thing. Or please refer me to a link. I know the 'divorce' part... but I really thought he'd go back to not giving a damn. Especially because our daughter is adopted and 6 and we only had her for about a year and a half before I finally dumped his ass. Please share, because in the back of my mind I'm really expecting this to all go away.. and if that isn't the case I need to be prepared. Everyone just keeps telling me the same thing.. He doesn't want to parent. Don't worry, you'll get what you want eventually, hang in there. etc. etc. Thanks! Sorry didn't mean to hijack the post.

I can tell you that Ns have no interest in "parenting". They are in interested in keeping up a superior image to themselves and the outside world, and they are interested in keeping many sources of narcissistic supply available. Being Father of the Year fills both of these "needs" for an N and that is their motivation. The way you can tell the difference is that when it's time to put the childs need before their own the N will not step up to the plate. Unless, of course, someone is watching them and they will polish their image in doing so. Does that make sense. Most people have a hard time putting their finger on exactly what doesn't feel right with an N's behavior, but they know in their gut that something is abnormal.

Thanks Rebecca. That is very helpful and I will keep that in mind. I do notice now that he is forced to spend some of his time with her doing her homework that there are some frustrations on his part. I just hope eventually it becomes not worth it to him.

unfortunately FOTY doesn't EVER go away :(. My son is now 16 almost 17 and he thinks his dad is god and walks on water. My ex was VERY abusive and walked out on me when my son was only about 8 months old. (I found out later he had been cheating on me and sleeping with his best friends sister, who he has since married and has 2 kids with.) He wouldn't ever pay child support and would in fact quit his job as soon as ORS located it just so he wouldn't pay. i didn't get child support on a regular basis til about 8 yrs ago when he pulled his head out of his A^% and thought "oh jeeze I have a wife and 2 other kids to support, I need a steady income." He STILL to this day hasn't paid me a dime in daycare, schooling expense, or medical expenses. he throws a fit about even paying me child support and has told me MANY times that if ORS didn't collect it he would never give me a cent. he is a COMPLETE deadbeat and has never wanted any real responsibility for his son, and he still doesn't.
When my son was 7 I was looking at remarrying and asked if he would sign over his rights so my son could be adopted by my new husband, and his response wasn't. "No, I love my son." it was "NO, because that would make things easier on YOU." he pulls all sorts of crap and gives me all sorts of problems SIMPLY to make things difficult on my end and doesn't care what it does to his child. He had almost no contact with his child for most of his life until about 4 years ago when I told my ex's parents that they could no longer have free reign with my son. (my son has MANY mental and emotional issues because of them.) My ex-mother-in-law stood in my doorway and told my son that I was a major B. They would tell him stuff like this all the time and tell him he didn't have to listen to me and any responsibilities I gave him were unreasonable and he shouldn't have to do them. Grandparents didn't realize that in the state of UT, they DO have rights here and they could have sued me for visitation and instead paid for my ex's attorney for him to go from 2 hrs wee supervised visitation to full visitation. I presented all sorts of paperwork to the courts of the emotional and mental abuse and the courts didn't care and gave him full visitation. I took him back to court on contempt of many issues and the courts didn't care and gave him even more visitation. My ex has violated EVERY part of our order and the courts don't care and neither do the police. no one will do anything about it and my son thinks I;m the biggest B around and hates me and wants to go live at dad's house, and uses every excuse he can to be there.
My ex comes and picks him up all the time when he isn't supposed to have him and my son just leaves with him. It doesn't matter what I try to show my son, he doesn't care and thinks his dad is the best thing out there. My son's step mom won't even have anything to do with him and won't take care of him in ANY way, but he still wants to be there instead of here.
I gave up everything for my son, My goals, my life, my carer, collage, everything. I went with out simply so he could have things and nice things. I spoiled him and in return he doesn't want anything to do with me and instead wants a complete deadbeat who really doesn't care about him at all.
I don't care HOW old the child is. They will ALWAYS think highly of the deadbeat parent no matter what we do. I see it with my own husband. He Idolizes his adopted dad even though he treated him like crap and favored his own child over him and to this day has nothing much to do with my husband. But my husband is still trying to please his father.
No mater how old they are. It never changes.

I had REALLY hoped that with all the years that he would just grow bored and not want the responsibility and just go away. He never did. he just did and does everything he can to make my life miserable and ruin as many of my plans as possible. he still wont take responsibility for his child. He still leaves all of that on me. But instead of taking care of his child and being responsible for him he dumps my son off on anyone he can find any time that he can.

Harley,

I'm so sorry that you have gone through all this with your son - and that it's still ongoing. These Ns will stop at nothing to get what they want when they want it with no regard whatsoever what it does to even their children. I have a daughter 21 who still wants nothing more that to finally find what it is that will please Ndad. He just keeps dangling his promise of acceptance out there for her to grasp at. One thing she thinks will finally do it is to side with him against me in his attempts to get revenge on me for leaving him. He's been turning her against me since the first time I tried to leave N but didn't, and she's completely alienated from me now, believing his lies about me and now telling them herself. She's tried turning her little sister against me too, just like her father has. Thankfully they didn't succeed, but they've made her life so much harder than it needs to be.

It's so sad - I think it will be so very long before these children of N's wake up and realize how their Nparents have just used them for their own evil ends. Maybe never. I'm afraid my D's Nfather has taught her how to be just like him. I hope that's not what happens to your son. These N "parents" just don't have the slightest clue about what it means to be a parent.

I think it really depends on the circumstances. There are so many variables involved like the personality of the child, the personality of the ex, the support the "sane" parent has available to them....

My exN has his whole family backing him and mine all live out of state. He is skilled enough to pull off a lot of stuff, but over time his true nature ALWAYS shows. He is and always will be about himself. My oldest son (14) understands that, but he still idolizes his dad, because he's his dad. My challenge at this point is to provide him with positive, responsible male role models to contrast with what he is seeing in his dad, uncles and granddaddy. I stayed too long in the marriage for him. If I had gotten out a few years earlier it would have been easier.

My oldest sister divorced her exN after 17 years of marriage and 7 kids. He forced her to give up custody of all of them, then remarried and moved to another state. She saw them at Christmas and on graduations. She developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in 1994 and died 10 years later at the age of 51. Her kids love her and miss her, but they still think their dad is the greatest.

I have another sister that divorced her exN after 12 years of marriage and 5 kids. He fought for custody of the oldest one - a 12 year old girl at the time - and won because his lawyer was buddies with the judge. My sister remarried and moved away, and her ex remarried too. Her kids have all gone to spend months with their dad at different times, but none of them stay long because he's a crappy father. Last year her 16 year old daughter was living with him and she was date raped and got an STD. Apparently when she was in the hospital her N dad called her a whore. She ahs completely disowned him and considers her stepdad to be her real dad.

It all just depends, but the best thing you can do is get support for yourself and your kids. Counseling, church, support groups, Big Brothers, whatever you have to do.

Stay encouraged.
-Rebecca

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Almostfree, I'm sorry to hear that. It makes you wonder what's worse, having kids who don't understand what their N parents are, or havign kids who do understand. Mine LOVE their dad and they don't see the poison he is injecting into them every chance he gets. I guess either way it's good to get counseling for the kids. So many times I have wanted to tell the kids how sorry I am that I picked a Narcissist to be their father.

I get free counseing for myself and my kids through a local agency called the Family Violence Prevention Services. We stayed at the battered women's shelter for three weeks after I left him and we qualified for a lot of services there. Many cities and counties have free counseling services for people who can't afford to pay for their counseling. I highly recommend it to everyone who has had to deal with a narcississt in any way.
-Rebecca

Sorry I haven't been here....had family responsibilities to attend to and haven't had much time of late!

Yes, the POTY thing will last as long as there is N supply to be had. Worse yet, our children gravitate toward the N parent and help give them that supply. It doesn't make sense to us but here's what I have come to see....

Our children know that we will always be there for them and that we will supply the unconditional love that they need. However, the N parent cannot and will not do that just by nature of what they are. Problem is, our children need that from both parents if at all possible and the N will dangle the carrot and give just enough to keep the child around and interested so that they can get their N supply. From what I hear from others with grown children, it doesn't always stop when the children turn 18, 21, 26 or whatever. The N will continue to go after the N supply and will do whatever is necessary to get it and it doesn't matter how or where.

The POTY act works even after the children are of age if the child hasn't ever figured out that the N parent is just using them. That can happen if the N parent gets custody/primary residence and then uses the time with the children to denigrate the "good parent" and turn the child against that parent. It can also work if the "good parent" doesn't stand up to the N parent and doesn't share facts with the child when necessary/appropriate.

With my boys, I make sure that they are guided toward figuring out when their father is using them for N supply. I don't tell them straight out. I don't knock their dad either. I give them facts and let them figure it out. We have joint/joint physical/legal and my ex got primary residence because I worked and he didn't (makes sense right? ) and I work hard to make sure that the boys aren't completely sucked in by N dad. Right now, N dad is trying to push the boys toward careers that will not only allow him to continue thinking he's FOTY and showing the world he is FOTY, but that would have the boys making so much money that they could support him for the rest of his miserable life! The boys are 9 and 11!

A lot of what I post comes from real life situations of people that I know, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. I have no statistics or research facts to back all this up....just the experiences of people like us.

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As long as there are stupid people in the world ns will have supply......By stupid I mean people who dont'get' it about n/ps....they prefer to think the world is all good.2 out of 3 of our kids sided with the p.....these kids were in their 30s and had been abused by the p themselves in the past.One was allowing p during our marriage to get his mail at her house.....obviously couldnt say no to him...she wasnt very strong.....the other p brought into court with him and then this kid lied to family of mine saying he was having nothing to do with his dad(p)...this one also spied on me on the pc b4 I left this very abusive situation and even told p where I was living...I knew p was obsessed with his guns when I left so this didnt help.Father of the year will last as long as he needs it to last.