Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

KJ · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 7 Location: Australia

Hey Everybody,
Very new to this. Never msned or texted or chatted before (did I get the lingo right?) No, I'm not ancient just technologically challenged and shy.
I've only just discovered this place after researching sociopthic tendencies to see if I was right and apparently by all accounts I am. I don't know how much detail I should go into but I am bordering on desperate...no scratch that, way past desperate and tettering on the edge so I'll give you the bare facts and hope to God that somebody can help me.
My 16yo son beat my 15yo son with an iron bar so badly today that he has been hospitalised. When my 16yo came back home after fleeing the scene he blithely informed me that it wasn't his fault and that my younger son had got what was coming to him. When I asked him if he was sorry he said why should he be he wasn't hurt and then took himself off to bed. I ahve three other children besides these two and am terrified of what will happen next.
I could use a bit of advice from the wise and experienced or just from somebody who doesn't think that he's alright and I'm screwed up. Hope you're out there and thanks for reading.
KJ

Mercedes · Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 38

Hi KJ,
Welcome to this site. You will find a lot of sympathetic people here and it is good for you to share your problems with people who have some idea of what you are going through!
I don't have much experience with Anti Social behaviour in children as my experience was an affair with a P. However, I have a friend who is going through a lot of heartache with her daughter, who although not violent, seems to be displaying these tendencies i.e lying, absconding, little or no emotion etc. I also have a friend who is a Consultant Child Psychiatrist in the UK who gave me some insight into this disorder.
I can tell you that no psychiatrist will diagnose a Psychopathic/Anti Social personality disorder until the age of 18 years. They will however diagnose ( as in my friend's case) a Conduct disorder which as far as I can gather is a pattern of behaviour in adolescence that indicates a potential Psychopathic disorder in adulthood.
My advice would be to have your son evaluated by a Psychatrist ( specifically one who specialises in conduct disorder) so that you have some idea of what you are dealing with. As a parent, you need an objective opinion as it is such an emotional rollercoaster for you.
Here are some links about this subject that may help you. Keep writing as you definately need support at the moment.

Links:-
Msn Psychopath/Narcissist website- has advice for parents of AS children.

Australian Institute of Criminology
No 290: Patterns of AS Behaviour from early to late adolescence
www.aic.gov.au

Anti Social Personality Disorder
www.wikipedia.org

Hope this helps,
Mercedes

devastated9 · Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 28

Hi KJ,

So sorry to hear your situation. I agree with everything Mercedes said.

Here's some more info:

http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/ASP.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000919.htm

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-ch02.html

d

Clueless1 · Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 138

My Xp Husaband used to do things like that to his brothers when he was living at home. His mom would send him off to relatives for a while then take him back. Of course it was always someone elses fault and he never felt bad about what he had done only what they had done to him. I was 17 when I met him and he was such a victim. I wanted to help him. So guess what his Mom got relief for 17 years. He became my problem and he manipulated me to the point I could not see him for what he was.
I feel for you because he is your son and I know that you love him. Have you considered pressing charges against him?
He needs to take responsibility for his actions.
Has he done other things?

Theresa13 · Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 1547 Location: , Ontario

Hello KJ......I just can't tell you how sorry I am about this mess you're in............it's truly heart breaking..............I am no pro by any stretch, but I do believe my sister was like your son when we were younger..........It's a very frightening thing..............Never mind you're torn because he's your son.........I really feel for you...........I can't offer any advice other than keep coming to the board and hopefully you will find some info that can help direct you...........I see that others have given you some links............and as I was told when I came here READ ALL YOU CAN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.........I sure your nerves are shot and you fear heightedned......I would think that's pretty normal given the circumstances.........Please look after yourself and the other children........I will keep you in my prayers.......Good Luck, Always, Theresa
_________________
I've given my memoirs far more thought than any of my marriages. You can't divorce a book.

KJ · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 7 Location: Australia

Hey guys,
I'd like to thank you all for the info, advice and encouragement. Just knowing that we're not alone in this is a huge support. To update, yes I had him charged with assault and an interim AVO has been issued. Before the police came out I sat on my front verandah and talked to him in the hopes that maybe I was wrong or just overwrought by what had happened. I asked him if he was sorry for what he'd done and he said nope his younger brother shouldn't have upset him (the whole argument had been over whose turn it was on the bloody playstation!) I asked him if he was prepared to take responsibility for is actions. He got the most awful smile on his face and said yeah he'd take responsibility for putting his brother in hospital. I have never been so afraid in all my life as when he smiled at me that way. When the police came he didn't say a thing he just smiled at me while they were talking to him. He was compliant with their requests and polite and friendly but he had a smile onhis face the whole time. My boy that was in hospital had to go to the station and make a statement and I had to sit and listen to what had been done to him and not just that day but other things he'd done that I wasn't aware of. He said he was afraid to lodge a complaint with the police or even tell me for fear of retaliation. It was like listening to a battered wife, his voice never changed tone the whole time. I asked him if he was angry about what had happened he said he didn't know. I made arrangements so that my son who was charged would stay somewhere else but my ex's brother showed up. I tried to tell him to be careful and watch out for his family and he looked at me like I'd just crawled out from under a rock. There has been a lot of history of aggressive and dominating behaviour with my 16yo. I always thought it was just him trying to be the alpha but when I sat down and thought about it the only time my 16yo has ever been caring or affectionate was when he thought there was something to gain. I've taken him to a psychologist and after five visits was told he didn't need to come again he was just exhibiting typical teenage behaviours and that he would grow out of it. I knew something wasn't right I just can't believe I left it so long and that one of my other children had to be so badly hurt before I woke up and did something. Tell me we'll get through this. Tell me that I can make it better for the other kids. I've done nothing but research this thing since I figured it out. I've spoken to other family members, to teachers and doctors and the whole thing seems pretty hopeless. The psychiatrist I spoke to yesterday told me that it was untreatable and that no meds work. He said I can't make the boy grow a conscience. So I'm pretty clued up on what I CAN"T do can some one tell me what I can do? I'll go to the sites you've recommended and I'll come back here and talk but this is so hopeless. How do you cope? I had to get rid of one of my children so the rest could feel safe in the one place they should always feel safe and I was completely clueless it was this bad!!!
Okay, I've had my whinge for the day. Again thanks for everything I'll look at those sites and tell you how we go in court on Friday.
KJ

devastated9 · Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 28

KJ,

Hang in there. Sounds like you're doing everything right. Keep learning. I remembered this article and thought I would share it since it talks about what a mom did with her son:

http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Articles/Psychopath.htm

I know nothing about this doctor or his website other than that article caught my eye. Maybe some of the links on his homepage "might" be helpful (just another resource to check out):

http://www.crisiscounseling.com/

Some more links:

Conduct Disorder
http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/CD.html
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/conduct_disorder
http://www.conductdisorders.com/
http://www.aboutourkids.org/aboutour/articles/about_conduct.html
http://www.teenswithproblems.com/conduct_disorder.html

Oppositional Defiant Disorder
http://www.parentingtheatriskchild.com/ODD.html
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_with_oppositional_defiant_disorder
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-disorder/DS00630
http://www.kidsmentalhealth.org/ConductDisorderOppositionalDefiantDisorder.html

Sounds like you are staying strong and clear-minded. It's a horrifying time right. Try to remember to take some deep breaths when you can and take one minute at a time.

Please let us know how things go if you're up for it.

You're doing great! Don't forget to breath...deep breaths.

d

KJ · Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 7 Location: Australia

Thanks D. I read the article and it was interesting. I have read quite a lot by Robert Hare in the last few days. His insight is terrifying. The more I learn the scarier it becomes but I haven't given up. I just have to find an approach that works and doesn't put the others in harms way.

Thanks again
KJ

movedon · Site Admin Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 827

Kj apologies for not seeing this thread, I have answered you on another thread you did hun hope you are ok, please let us know how you go on.
Hugs
Movedon
xxxxxxxxx

OxDrover · Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 1465 Location: Arkansas USA

Dear KJ,
.
Hadn't seen this thread of yours, hope you are doing well as can be expected. My mom has sent more money to my own little P-son in prison again and I have been on a personal rant over that so rather distracted. It ticks me off that he can be in prison 450 miles away and still "interfeer" in my life---

I am glad that you are reading and learning---and yes, it is a bad delimia and a painful one as we have discussed before. I am glad that you are coming here and finding other mothers and other information to help and support you. You DO sound strong, and you ARE making the right choices even though they are painful ones.

I will continue to keep you in my prayers and thoughts and if I could I would reach out and hug you, so for now this is the best I can do ((((KJ)))))
_________________
Life is lived forward, but understood backwards.

socialworker · Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Posts: 1

Hang in there - keep seeking professional help until you find someone who will work with you and your son and prescribe medication. There is someone out there who can help you and there are medications for adolescents that help. Don't give up the search until you find that person. There is help and hope. Here is another website: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010415/1579.html

stillbreathing · Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 286

KJ,

I can't imagine what you must be going through right now. Just wanted you to know my thoughts are with you and that you are an AMAZING MOTHER for pressing charges against the 16 year old. You are sending a CRYSTAL clear message to your 15 year old and your other children that abuse will not be tolerated in your house and that you are going to protect them, even from one another and themselves. Many parents would have hid this and swept it under the rug because of how it would look to others and how it would reflect on themselves as parents. I'm just so impressed by you.

And the older boy... You never know, he may come around. It's possible he was covertly abused and you had no way of knowing about it. He got the idea from somewhere, you know? Therapy --and medication too-- can work some wonders.

I had to go to four different therapists till I found the one that I worked the best with, who understood and could really help me. Lucky #4. I agree with SocialWorker, don't give up. Keep banging on doors till someone gives you a workable answer.

My thoughts and prayers are with you,
Love Still
_________________
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"Love yourself first and everything else falls into line. You really have to love yourself to get anything done in this world."
~ Lucille Ball