Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

Hello all

I really hope I can get advice and support here how to stop a destructive and dysfunctional cycle I'm caught in. I'm embarrassed to tell my story but I'm so very depressed today.

My life has been one chaotic mess from adolescence. I suffer with mental health issues myself and have had substance misuse problems. However, I have constantly battled to tried to help myself and I've been to see my psychiatrist last week to go back onto medication. I totally resonate with 'co-dependency' and thought I had that particular dysfunctional facet of my persona under control. How wrong I was, I have totally 'fell off the wagon' as such.

Last year I was in a really happy relationship it seemed for ten months with a 'normal' guy (I thought)
Out of the blue we split up last March, I had had a severe flood in my apartment and had to clean and pack up to move, I also caught the flu at the same time. BF said he didn't want to come up for the weekend because I had to work for a few hours on the Sat night. I didn't think that was reasonable seeing as I was ill & needed helping hand, so I dumped him and sorted everything out myself.

I sound sane so far!

I needed some work done on my apartment and was given a guys number (Bart) He was very attractive, charming, confident alpha male type. Sparks flew, which I KNEW from life long experience is NOT a good sign with me. He tried courting me with vigor. I'd like to say I really tried to avoid his advances, but I felt sad and lonely and felt totally out of sorts with the new house move. I was weak and vulnerable, but tried to hide it. My being evasive probably made me a more attractive conquest. He is a huge drinker, was sexually and physically abused by both parents, joined the Army and then got married to a totally controlling woman and became a Jehovah Witness. I should have ran a mile, instead I felt sorry for him. He kept asking me out to the local bar, once very drunken night I slept with him. I was freaked about how much attention I was getting from him and when he assumed we were an automatic "us" I put him right that I wanted to take things very slowly. We did continue seeing each other and sleeping together but didn't discuss being exclusive.

There was a big night out in my area and we were both there with friends. I was an organiser and had explained I wouldn't be able to stand with him all night. He was watching me socialising all night, quite obsessively to be honest,at one point an old friend pulled me onto his lap and gave me a friendly hug and kiss. Apparently at this point he was overheard saying 'I've had enough of this', and proceeded to start drinking very heavily and flirt with women. He said to me he'd been given phone numbers, I didn't react. By the end of the night he was dancing cheek to cheek with a woman I knew somewhat. I decided I didn't like his games and left him to it.
As I was leaving the venue there was a scuffle outside. A friend of mine was hitting a woman who had hit her fiancée. The woman was extremely drunk and my friends fiancée had tried to help her up, drunken woman lashed out and kicked him between his legs, he had just been diagnosed with testicular cancer, so my usual very placid friend lost it. Next minute, Bart came out of no-where and punched the drunken woman clean in the face. She landed on her backside and Bart was dragged away. He looked weirdly stunned and disorientated, worse than drunk (he doesn't take drugs). Does this sound like someone's 'mask' falling? His friend put it down to him having PTSD from the army and that he thought he was in combat and his comrades under attack? The woman dancing with him dragged him off, they went home together and slept together.

He was full of remorse the next day over both things. Not so much towards me though, as we weren't an official item. I wasn't exactly over the moon obviously about the other woman, but didn't feel I had the right to condemn, plus I can relate to making stupid mistakes with drink.

However I was quite traumatised. We were meant to be going away together for the Easter weekend, but I took off to my friends instead. It didn't work. I don't know what went wrong, but Bart & I started flirting via text and I felt consumed. I hate myself for being so pathetic and weak.

The apartment underneath me was vacant and he wanted to get it, I wasn't at all happy about it and told him. Luckily it was riddled with damp so he didn't take it. Then an apartment in the next building became vacant shortly after and he took it against my wishes. I really was quite concerned, I felt hemmed in.

We have been on and off more times than I can remember since March. He has terrible mood swings, half the time he's the life and soul, then becomes very depressed. (He doesn't have a temper though as far as I've seen apart from the one night I mentioned earlier). I've found his self pitying exausting and draining so we've split up. Also his estranged wife still calls him and asks things like why isn't his car outside his flat - and he will reply to her?! They have been separated for nearly two years after 20 years marriage, she left him but he doesn't know why. She's been extremely uncooperative with him and I can't understand why he doesn't keep contact to a minimum, this has caused me to walk out too. He has to be surreptitious in his comings and goings because he is going against his religion, he doesn't want to be alone for the rest of his life but he's breaking rules by seeing me. This has caused rifts!

The sex life is absolutely dire. I feel like he's feeling guilty during it, there's no eye contact and it's over as fast as he can. Yet I feel he has been quite a womaniser in his life before being a JW. He was very polished the first night.

I've tried to be understanding, but it's hard work, and I've caught him out lying. He left a window open on my PC that is a Sex search site. He swore blind he wasn't a member and it was a pop-up. Since when do pop-ups upload your picture and write your profile! Seeing as he hadn't ever replied to messages or written any (I checked) I let it go. However I also found he had joined dating sites. Walked out again, only to be lured back.

And so on and so forth. My business collapsed about six weeks ago and I've had to endure lots of court appearances, I became very weepy and needy (I'm usually quite outgoing confidant and perceived as 'strong') he 'seemed' to become distant. I emphasise 'seemed' as I'm not convinced it wasn't me being paranoid. I decided to spend as much time away from home as possible to try to get myself together as I was severely depressed and hating myself for being clingy. I've put lots of weight on too and my self esteem is rock bottom. I've since found out he has dated other women in the last few months, don't know if it was during a 'break'. Last week we had a really nice night in and he was really affectionate. I decided I had just as many issues and wanted to give it another go. Went away for the weekend and have come back to him being totally elusive again. I don't know if it's because he's met someone else or going back to The Kingdom Hall.

I am driving myself NUTS looking out of the window every five minutes to see if his car is there. I haven't been able to function today, CONSTANT relentless obsessive thoughts. I've deleted his number so I can't text because I asked him could we talk last night and he blanked me, hasn't text all day. I just feel so disgusted at myself even though I know it's a type of 'illness' - HOW do I stop obsessing??? PLEASE, any tips? I can't keep going from friends to friends forever more! I can't believe I've become a spineless wimp desperate for scraps of attention and affection thrown to me. I'm better than this, I deserve more. PLEASE help me get back on the road to recovery!

My friend can't understand I'm acting so out of character - but he lives next door! I said to her I feel like a recovering alcoholic having to sit in a pub all day and not drink!

So very sorry for the length of this, and I know it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what the most of you have been though or are and my heart goes out to you all x ... I just don't want my mental health to deteriorate any more. I'm my own worst enemy - not him.

God bless.

Are you in any sort of therapy?

The bottom line is, you just have to choose YOU. You have to choose to take care of yourself. You have a lot going on, obviously. A move, a dwindling business (this I know a thing or two about). Lots of change. Can you take the time to focus on how those changes will manifest in the future - what kind of life you want - what you need to do to build it?

When you are obsessing - just like an alcoholic - use the one day at a time mentality. For this moment, I will not contact him. For this hour, I won't do it. For this day, I won't. Don't focus on tomorrow or even the next hour. Just the moment.

Obsessive thinking is habitual. Stop the habit and you will stop the obsession.

Write it all out. As many times as you can. Journal your head off. Never send him a letter - but write to him - write about what he did - what you wish he would have done - what you remember - anything. No editing, no rules (outside of NO CONTACT).

I do suggest professional help though - it will be a good outlet for you.

It gets better. I promise.

Knoxy thanks so much for replying.

No I've never had any therapy other than self help, what do you suggest? I don't want to give up drinking entirely, it's my last vice! (apart from cursing and men lol) I've only ever been offered counseling, which was to be honest a joke, I had to explain what co-dependancy was! Only after a breakdown was I was sent to see a Psychiatrist that simply prescribed meds, nothing else. I don't know if there is any therapies offered in the UK on the NHS, nor do I know how much they are privately, and I'm stony broke now.

I desperately want a peaceful but full life, to find a rewarding path. I've messed up so many times, and it's always because of men, yet I can't admit defeat and realise I'm incapable of a healthy relationship. It's just so depressing to accept, I don't 'need' men, but neither do I want to be alone and never have intimacy or affection. Sorry, I'm trying not to be self pitying but I do feel wretched today.

I wasn't sure if the obsessing was like an OCD thing and was considering asking for meds for that, but read the side effects! You're right though, just by venting on here made me feel a whole lot better and I feel a lot less anxious. I will put a journal in it. I was also going to write down all the reasons I need to stay away from him for when my resolve weakens. I think he knew I wanted to talk about 'us' last night and that's why he ignored me, but I've thought up a BS story that myself and business partner wanted to get him involved in next venture that is looking to prove very lucrative, but sorry it's too late now <HA!> I know it might sound petty, but at least it makes me feel a little more dignified!

One hour at a time. I'll remember that. I'm joining a Gym Monday and going to try to get some sort of discipline in my life. Right now I have way too much free time, the devil makes work for idle hands as they say.

Do you think he sounds like a N or a P that has turned to Religion to mask their true identity? I find if I understand things I can box them up and put them away if you know what I mean. I'm still self doubting on and off that it's me with the problem.

Thank you so much for your time, it is truly very appreciated.

Lou

i think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture here.
you have stated that you have been dealing with mental health issues all your live and currently you are not being treated for those issues. you can not substain a healthy relationship with anyone until you your self get fixed.
just because a guy is a jerk or treats you crappy doesnt mean he is a psychopath or a narcissist. you stated that others have said that he has ptsd it is possible especially with those in the military. and as for the fight well its a fight. he was drunk, drunk people do stupid things.
i wouldnt assume that he is n or p. im sure he may have some underlying issues but it doesnt mean thats what is wrong with him.

Thanks for reply. Just to reiterate, I'm well aware that I'm presently unwell, that's why I'm asking for advice and support.
I know I'm unable to sustain a relationship at the moment with him or anyone else, I want to be healthy enough to be on my own, then I would be well enough to date, if that makes sense. The fact that I'm struggling with co-dependency issues at moment makes me think I NEED a man, but I know that's just the co-dependency so I'm fighting it. Believe me I can see the big picture all too well and it's very worrying, hence going back to psychiatrist, coming on here. I can also see his apartment, his car, and him from my place and desperately need to stop obsessing! I'm feeling quite angry and pissed off at him today, hopefully that's a good sign. I didn't contact him at all yesterday. I hate him for moving next door.

I don't think he is an N or a P because he treats me badly or because he got into a fight. I'm wondering if he is because he has other red flags I've witnessed - liar, violent, charismatic, flirt, Jekyll/Hyde moods, and professes to have been devoted to Jehovah, despite breaking all the 'laws' of his religion as soon as his wife left him. Also substance misuses and has got himself into so much debt the last two years from impulse purchases that he's declaring bankruptcy. (Not before he got out more finance for a brand new car and hasn't even made one payment, and was outraged because the company called him a thief?! Obtaining something with intent to deception is pretty much thieving in my eyes!)

To top it all my control freak mother has just completely ignored my wishes yet again and reduced me to tears by putting a guilt trip on me because I asserted myself. God I hate my life today so much.

...liar, violent, charismatic, flirt, Jekyll/Hyde moods, devoted to Jehovah despite breaking the 'laws', substance misuses, in debt from impulse purchases... left a window open that is a Sex search site... found he joined dating sites.
The sex life is dire... he's feeling guilty during it... no eye contact and it's over as fast as he can... he has been quite a womanizer before being a JW. He was very polished the first night.
My business collapsed six weeks ago... I became weepy and needy... he 'seemed' distant... I've since found out he dated other women in the last few months.

I don't want to give up drinking entirely, it's my last vice!... obsessing was like an OCD thing... considering asking for meds
my control freak mother has ignored my wishes yet again and reduced me to tears by putting a guilt trip on me..."

Bart is a Grade-A jerk. He's bad news. He's not the guy for you.
The guy has an abundance of horrendous traits (look at the list you made above!), doesn't make eye contact during sex (ugh!), is on sex and dating sites (glaring red flags), is distant when you needed him most after your business collapsed (huh?!!) - I mean, what more do you need to convince you that he's worthless?

You may need to address the possibility that you have a drinking problem if you consume two drinks or more per day.
I think you are correct that obsessing is a lot like OCD, but looking for meds is not the answer - therapy is the answer unless you are somehow able to reason yourself out of it on your own.
Alcohol and meds are NOT the answer (unless the doctor prescribes the meds, of course).

Your mother is an additional manipulation and control problem that you don't need in your life. She's likely an N, P, or NP like him. Try going very Low Contact with her. If that doesn't work, go No Contact.
-

nilmahc wrote:i think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture here.
you have stated that you have been dealing with mental health issues all your live and currently you are not being treated for those issues. you can not substain a healthy relationship with anyone until you your self get fixed.
just because a guy is a jerk or treats you crappy doesnt mean he is a psychopath or a narcissist. you stated that others have said that he has ptsd it is possible especially with those in the military. and as for the fight well its a fight. he was drunk, drunk people do stupid things.
i wouldnt assume that he is n or p. im sure he may have some underlying issues but it doesnt mean thats what is wrong with him.

Nilmahc, I respectfully state that you have made a total of three posts on this board. You are a newcomer. Please refrain from giving a diagnosis or response to our users until you are an established member of this board. It's inappropriate and against forum rules.

I am still unclear as to your motive for being on this board. This is a board for survivors of an N or P relationship. If you are not a survivor, kindly find another board for your use. We moderate this board very heavily and will not allow for trolling here.

Thank you.


(edited to add - this user is posting under two user names from the same IP address - playing games - banning immediately)

own-worst-enemy wrote:Knoxy thanks so much for replying.

No I've never had any therapy other than self help, what do you suggest?

I suggest therapy. :)

There are a myriad of issues here - most of which have little to do with whether this guy is an N or a P. There are multiple layers to this. We can't help you with all of them. Sounds like you aren't just struggling with this man - but with you. A third party can help you work through what is you in all of this - what is him - and what to do moving forward so you don't make these mistakes again.

Unfortunately, I guarantee the therapist will suggest you stop drinking - especially if you are on meds. It's going to make things worse on you. :(

What we can do is help you get clear of this man. But you have to be willing to participate in strict No Contact. That's the only real choice for recovery - regardless of his diagnosis.

Hi OWE,
Go NC with this dude. He's bad for you. Doesn't really matter what his specific diagnosis might be. ;)
A lot of us have been where you are. I can remember how awful it is. I wish I had known to go NC. It is not your fault and you are not the reason you're in this situation, and you don't have to get out of it alone. There are good therapists who can HELP! See if you can find one.
I know how you feel about drinking too, and I think you will find those issues resolvable in their own time.
For now you need to do the immediate things that will help you - get away from this guy, quit looking for him out the window. Drop those thoughts. You don't need them and they don't work for you.
You are in the right place here. You'll get some compassion and some tough love from people who've been there.
Take care,
PF

I suggest therapy. :)

There are a myriad of issues here - most of which have little to do with whether this guy is an N or a P. There are multiple layers to this. We can't help you with all of them. Sounds like you aren't just struggling with this man - but with you. A third party can help you work through what is you in all of this - what is him - and what to do moving forward so you don't make these mistakes again.

Unfortunately, I guarantee the therapist will suggest you stop drinking - especially if you are on meds. It's going to make things worse on you. :(

What we can do is help you get clear of this man. But you have to be willing to participate in strict No Contact. That's the only real choice for recovery - regardless of his diagnosis.

Thanks knoxy & gettingthere.

I appreciate I'm a whole heap of issues, which all need me to help myself with first. I know you can't help me with most stuff. I'm cutting right back on my drinking, two a night I'm trying for, then only a weekends. Mental health wise I know once I know where my next paycheck is coming from will help, and improve my self esteem, which will lessen the anxiety and depression. Please God the meds from Doc (I don't touch drugs) will help too.

I actually feel better that people have reached out in cyber world to help me, thankyou so much. I was feeling guilty that I was putting on friends and getting paranoid that I would drive them nuts and lose them (good old crappy self worth again!) at least I know your choosing to help me so I don't feel like I'm being a drain.

You're right, Bart is a loser gettingthere. I did think myself, is it because I'm no longer 'arm candy' as a well known successful business coordinator that I'm surplus to requirements. I've let myself be manipulated by him so much that now the cat is bored with throwing this mouse up in the air over and over. I look forward to the day I'm glad. I feel so lonely right now though, I'm relieved he hasn't tried to contact me, because I honestly don't know if my resolve is strong enough yet not to slide back into 'one last time, see if I can 'fix' him' mode, just for some attention and affection. Thank GOD I've got this board and you guys here!Please God he doesn't call or text tonight, or if he does I have the strength to ignore him.

I don't know what to do about running into him. He hasn't 'officially' done anything of sorts for me to be ignoring him, I would look like a bitter crank if I did. I so don't want to see him with other women. I was going to ask him the other night about agreeing to bars & restaurants we would & wouldn't go to for the time being. I was going to tell him I'm dating other guys also, but if I'm honest with myself, am I doing that just to get a reaction from him to get a kick from kidding myself 'he cares'. So think best to say nothing? Just wave or politely pass time of day if run into him?

Incidentally - just poured my heart out to my aunt, who agrees entirely with me about my mother, so that's lifted guilt trip over that, and I've decided I'm banning here from my home. at least then if I see her on neutral territory I have the power to walk away.

Thanks PF ... I have to keep reiterating to myself he just wants to be a 'friend' because my position in the community makes it beneficial to him to be falsely benevolent to me, and to make him feel better about treating someone decent crap. Also, keep me on the back burner for quick fix ego massage. (Thank God for small mercys lol, he's hopeless in the bedroom so there's one lure he doesn't have, phew! )
He has no qualities that I believe are 'true' and that I admire, I don't need him as a 'friend' and I have to remember I'm not strong enough to not be lured back in, so optimum NC is the best route as you say. I'm convinced he even run me everywhere etc etc as a form of subliminal control, and all his other 'kind acts' are to help keep his image of the good guy to keep in peoples favours. I'll shut up about him now because I need to focus on me!

God bless, Lou

Why are you so concerned about "how you look" while protecting yourself? That may be something to look at.

You can handle this however you feel most comfortable. If it were me, I would just stop talking to him. You owe him nothing.

I'm glad you are finding support through other family members about your mother.

We all have more issues than Newsweek. That is what brought many of us here. The difference is, a therapist can help you change in areas you are able to change - and make peace with the others. ;)

Why are you so concerned about "how you look" while protecting yourself? That may be something to look at.

Pride. I hate the fact I've been 'done over'. I hate the fact I'm hurting and it's very likely he's not, despite me secretly wishing he was and the stupid co-dependency gremlins trying to convince me he is. He's a user. I want my dignity back. I don't want him to think he has control over me, so I want to appear nonchalant and indifferent. Having my pride and dignity helps my self esteem, which has a positive knock on effect on my health strength and judgement.

Going to ask my Doc on Mon what therapy I can get.

We all have more issues than Newsweek.

LOL aint that the truth.

Yep your right. I'll just ignore him. Les painful to rip the band aid off in one swipe hey. He owes me a little money, I'll let him try to get that to me through a friend or something. I reckon he'll want to display his phoney virtues so I can't 'bad mouth' him, which I wouldn't anyway, but he knows his own tricks best.

Ooo - two days, hardly any drink and feeling quite strong and positive right now. Thanks X

You get your dignity back not by "one upping" him or looking good around others. You get your dignity back when you decide you want it. Dignity isn't anything more than a perception. Decide it.

You want dignity? Work on yourself - stop worrying about other's judgements so much. They don't define you. Master that and no way in hell will another N have his mitts on you...

You can do it. Therapy will help.

Hiya

Just reporting in.

Am doing quite well, six days no contact, anger is quelling and starting to feel more contempt and indifference.

It's going to take a while for me to not have gut ache when I think of him with other women, but the main thing is that I know I won't go back there now and so it's just a matter of time before I'm over it entirely. I say 'it' rather than him, as it was a co-dependancy fix I was craving ... not him.

Hope everyone is well XXX