Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

PrettyMirror wrote:
Does anyone else here find that raising kids is a trigger? In a sense, it opens old wounds, but in loving them as they are, I also find peace within myself.

Interesting question Pretty.
I'm sadly unable to have children myself (thanks to PF's 'antics').
But I have fostered abused children and raised full time, my niece from when she was 2 till almost 6 years old. Then I had to legally hand her back to her revolting NM (my sis).
I wanted to fight legally for her, and should have, because she's not doing so well anymore. TRIGGER because I enabled her going back by not fighting hard enough for her. (She cried and begged to stay with Hubby and I)

Also,in my youth, for four years, I was a full time de -facto step mother to a little girl, again 2 until 6 years of age with abusive parents, and she was still in my life a lot until age 8.
She's 21 now and NC with her parents. She and I just getting back in touch again.
So, my 'parenting' is very varied.

Anyway...I digress.
Because my dealings have been with other people's children (always abusive parents), it's been a matter of loving loving loving them and making them feel safe.
But, in the end, I always have to hand them back, because they're not mine. Back to rotten situations.
And more than a couple of times, the poor little kids have sobbed, clung to me and begged me not to let them go. They want to stay HOME with me (and now Hubby and me)
THAT'S totally heartbreaking. Because how do I get the child to understand I DON'T want them to leave either?
So, it's like I'm abandoning them when they want to stay. Trigger.

Yeah....major heartbreak on both sides and many many triggers. Lovely while I was able to keep them safe and happy. Terrifyingly awful when I had to let them go (thanks legal system, you suck with children!!)
Many many tears still shed over those kids. Especially the ones I'm not allowed by law to have contact with through the foster 'care' system.

Triggers Galore. I thought it was mostly because of me having to let these precious little children go back to their abusers, but now that you bring it up, maybe my upbringing had me hyper alert on what NOT TO DO to children.

I have a niece, (on Hubby's side) who has a brilliant family. Yet, still she needs to come stay with us now and then, just to chat and talk and be listened to.
Her Mother is good, kind etc. But her daughter still needs a set of ears to tell her truths to without judgement. She just talks for hours. I'm happy I can give her that. Unconditional I guess. It's soothing for both of us.

Wish I could have a child of my own. For so many years I was afraid because I thought I would be just like my own mother. By the time I had enough years of evidence I was a good mother, by looking after other people's children, I found out I couldn't have them.
Triggers galore in that one. My own parents robbed me of that. Especially my PF who destroyed any chance I had physically.

I'm so sorry to hear of your pain, KL. It is horrible when children are thrown back into abusive situations. And it's heartbreaking to hear that you are unable to have your "own." You sound like a lovely, caring person, and it's wonderful how you've welcomed children into your life in other ways---that in itself is a blessing, for both you and them.

Sadly, I know that as ACONs, we don't have a normal template for being a good parent. No role model. Like you, I navigate more by what NOT to do, than by following a good example. ::sigh:: I think I'm doing ok, so far. It's difficult sometimes, I see my daughter and think of what my mom did/didn't do for me when I was her age. Situations I was thrown into; I would NEVER do that to my kid. So, I'm getting triggered that way. It's weird. I try to focus on my daughter, and not on my own "stuff," but I feel like I'm juggling my stuff along with hormonal teen drama!

As you said, I think being a good non-judgemental listener is a great asset. (A by-product of being raised by an N, I suppose.)

Could also be why I attract Ns!

KL wrote:[
Interesting question Pretty.
I'm sadly unable to have children myself (thanks to PF's 'antics').
But I have fostered abused children and raised full time, my niece from when she was 2 till almost 6 years old. Then I had to legally hand her back to her revolting NM (my sis).
I wanted to fight legally for her, and should have, because she's not doing so well anymore. TRIGGER because I enabled her going back by not fighting hard enough for her. (She cried and begged to stay with Hubby and I)

Also,in my youth, for four years, I was a full time de -facto step mother to a little girl, again 2 until 6 years of age with abusive parents, and she was still in my life a lot until age 8.
She's 21 now and NC with her parents. She and I just getting back in touch again.
So, my 'parenting' is very varied.

I just wanted to say, thank you on behalf of the children, who's lives you have touched. You will have made a difference, and shown these children a different way.

At the age of 6, I was taken from the woman who showed me unconditional love and given to my abusers. Her love, stayed with me. When there was no one to protect me, help me, love me, I knew I'd once been loved, and with that came the hope, that one day be could lovable again. She taught me how to love others.
Women like yourself, make a difference.

Freethispirit wrote:
Women like yourself, make a difference.

Thank you Free. I really really REALLY hope that is true for the little ones I care for.
I'm happy you had someone in your early years who taught you love.
I had my Grandmother in my early years. She got sick and died when I was young, but I'll always know how it is to see someone's eyes light up with pure joy when I enter a room. Thanks to her.

Perhaps, when I'm strong enough, I'll foster again. As heart breaking as it is, if it helps even a little bit, I want to keep trying. What you said has given me some faith to keep hoping. Perhaps that's why I can't have my own. To help the lost ones?
Ah..... looking for meaning in this big crazy mess of a world.

Helping children through pain that I understand, is a wonderful way to take my mind off my own problems and physical pain. So now, I volunteer part time with children.
When I am healthy again, and less PTSD from FOO chasing me, Hubby and I may foster again. It's hard for him though, he's such a softy and distressed when we have to let them go. Not into a world of possibility as adults, but back to their abusers as little ones.
That is hard to wrap our heads and hearts around.

BUT if I am REALLY making a difference, even for a few weeks, or months...then it's worth it. God I hope it's worth it. My pain HAS to mean something, has to be part of me I can offer to the world. It can't all be for nothing you know? Everything I went through growing up HAS to be worth something in this world.
I need to turn it into something I can give, to balance out the anger and pain I feel.

To be an ACON gives us insights and empathy no one else can possibly have. I hope I can use that to make my tiny part of the world a little bit more bearable.

Okay, rambling now.
I hope every ACON can find peace, in their own children, and/or helping other kids get through tough times.
When I hold a child's hand, who KNOWS in their childhood heart that I 'GET IT'....well, that's priceless.

**EDIT TO ADD..I am NO saint. Not at all. My love for children came as a shock and was pretty much forced on me. Because I was only a nuisance for my NM, I had at a young age, decided not to have any myself.
I had two little brothers who I was forced to babysit. A baby and a toddler. Instead of playing with friends, I was stuck home with them. I resented them after a while. Then, I left when they were very young.
Then, I stayed away from kids. Until...one of my Nlovers wormed his way into my life. I kept saying No to his advances BECAUSE he had a little girl. I should have seen the red flag of him using my No as a negotiation. Anyway....he wormed into my life, before I knew it, I was living with him and a full time carer at a young age again, to a child.
She had just turned 2. I resented her, I wanted to sleep in, party, all that good stuff. But nope, this little girl was in the way.
Here's the thing...she fell in love with me instantly. She hated strangers, but hugged me and fell asleep in my arms the moment we met. Unusual her parents said. (she was the result of a 'holiday romance'.)
Gradually over a few months, her persistent affection towards me, crept in under my skin. My God!! I would wake in the morning to find her on the floor on my side of the bed shivering, lying down so she wouldn't wake me. How the hell could I NOT fall in love with that?
Oh, but I tried to harden my heart. Her heart was (and still is), just too big and glorious to ignore.

It wasn't me, who opened my heart to children. It was her. Totally her. She had shit parents, and I would have left her father sooner, if not for her. I still feel guilty for NCing him (and her), many tears over the years. And guess what....she forgives me!! I'm yet to forgive myself.
She's a lovely young woman now. A joy. So happy she NC'd her parents a couple of years ago (same time I did mine).

Just really wanted to add, any thing I give to children in need, is all her fault ! Not really mine. She opened my heart and I couldn't close it as much as I tried.
She's a stunning soul. Really stunning.
Love ya HON!! xxx
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KL wrote:

Freethispirit wrote:
Women like yourself, make a difference.

Helping children through pain that I understand, is a wonderful way to take my mind off my own problems and physical pain. So now, I volunteer part time with children.
When I am healthy again, and less PTSD from FOO chasing me, Hubby and I may foster again. It's hard for him though, he's such a softy and distressed when we have to let them go. Not into a world of possibility as adults, but back to their abusers as little ones.
That is hard to wrap our heads and hearts around.

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KL--I think what you did for your neice and what she in turn did for you is absolutely beautiful and sacred.

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sylah wrote:I've thought long and hard about why NPs kill/remove pets you love (my NM did this to me, too -- had animal control take away a cat I loved), why she went out of her way to prevent me from having any friends.

They want to be the gateway to what defines love for their victims. It's the ultimate in control -- s.

Sylah--

I'm so sorry you lost pets too. It really is traumatic, and my heart goes out to you.

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my NF learned he had cancer and when i rushed to his side to help out he sexually assaulted me because he thought he wouldn't live to face the consequences...i was 34 yrs old and married with children of my own

he ended up living and i reported his behavior and he and my NM said that i must have wanted it to happen and that I seduced him

shellshockella wrote:
She said, in a tone dripping with disgust, "I know you have this romance with _____(kitty's name) but he's disgusting and out of control."

One of my former friends, (suspected NPD) would accuse her husband of ****ing the dog. This HAS to be a symptom of an NPD mind. Bizarre, and disgusting.

Mother: actually two for the tie. First is Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, using me as a mentally disturbed child (yes, I was drugged out of oblivion at points). Second was when I woke up in the middle of the night, and using a loose definition of fondling, she was fondling me.

Father: dimmed the gaslights on me after my PB shot me point blank with a BB gun, hoping he could bring a handgun with him the next day for father-son bonding on a vacation. Thankfully the handgun thing never occurred. I questioned for a couple years whether my brother actually shot me with a BB gun, or if I made it up, but then maybe a year or two later, shot me again point blank.

My God Torched. that's ghastly. I'm so sorry.

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Glad you found this board Torched. You're not alone, sad to say.

shellshockella wrote:My God Torched. that's ghastly. I'm so sorry.

I'm an adult and my PM is currently painting me as a crazy, and has succeeded in getting me drugged with drugs I don't need and don't want and which are hurting me. I can barely fight her even as a full-grown woman. I can't even imagine the hell you went through as a child being subjected to this. Big big hugs.

I never thought of it as Munchhousen, but I guess that's essentially what my PM is pulling on me now. She invents this disorder, gets me drugged, possibly put in a psyche ward, and then on top of everything else, now she's reaping the benefits in sympathy and praise heaped on her for being the "poor suffering mother of a disturbed daughter." It's beyond sick. people are giving her money to help care for me too, even though she doesn't help me at all, and actually stole all my money.

Glad you found this board Torched. You're not alone, sad to say.

I think I saw what your mother was doing to you on another thread. Don't worry, I'm pulling for you to escape your predicament!

Shellshockella & Shyla,

I can relate to what you both have been through with your N's and pets....

My NM got rid of 2 pets I cared about, and let the others die a painful neglected death... One of my kittens disapeared..I think NM just didn't want to deal with it..She blamed it on our roomate.. her story was very sketchy..I was in 1st grade...I knew NM was lieing and got rid of it...

Then I another kitten she said ran away on Holoween when I was out trick or treating at age 11...I think she deliberately opened the door for the cat to run away....

Then I owned a rat...( yes, I know not the most desirable pet) and NM left it outside on hot days cause she didn't want it in the house...even though it was inside a cage.. not like it was doing any harm being in the house if it is in a cage...But she made me keep it outside in the hot sun.. I remember every day wondering if I was going to come home to find my rat dead,,,, One day when I got home from school I checked on the rat which she put in direct sunlight with no water and ofcorse it was dead...I remember being mad at her for not giving it water and for not putting it in the shade and I was only 6 years old but still couldn't see her logic...I was pissed off at her for quite some time..
Then at age 16 I was living with my father and he would not allow me to have my dog that I had for 7 years when I lived with my mom....So, one year after living with my dad and one year away from my dog my NM tells me a week after my dog died that she had died....I asked NM how it happened...and she coldly said my dog was " flee bitten" Why in the hell she didn't do something about it instead of letting my dog die a horrible uncomfortable death...my dog was so sweet too...I know my NM never walked her or gave her any attention that year either.....

Also, when I was about 5 going on 6 years old my NM had a P boyfriend... our cat had kittens...My NM's P boyfriend didn't want to feed or deal with the kittens and one day he took me with him and dumped/left all the kittens on the side of a road and drove off...nice guy...

Torched,
That is horrible what your NM did to you! It's pretty freaky to drug a kid like that....she could have killed you! I seriously hope that you are NC with her cause she sounds like a psychopath capable of anything....

My NM has been trying to get my sister hooked on narcotics and addictive drugs for years..I think my NM wants control of my sister and wants to sabatoge her life...when my sister would get headaches instead of taking my sister to the Dr. NM would give her Vicoden or Percocett...It used to anger me to no end.. My NM is an oxycontin addict.

Thanks Torched. I appreciate it.

And Lynn, hugs to you. that is sick. I'm so sorry.

Reading all these stories though--it really does amaze me how much these Ns and Ps have in common! They all seem to have the same bag of tricks.

Torched,
That is horrible what your NM did to you! It's pretty freaky to drug a kid like that....she could have killed you! I seriously hope that you are NC with her cause she sounds like a psychopath capable of anything....

My NM has been trying to get my sister hooked on narcotics and addictive drugs for years..I think my NM wants control of my sister and wants to sabatoge her life...when my sister would get headaches instead of taking my sister to the Dr. NM would give her Vicoden or Percocett...It used to anger me to no end.. My NM is an oxycontin addict.[/quote]

My mother is great at projecting mental illnesses on people. Of course, she's "suffered a couple of rough patches" herself, which I think is nothing more than attention seeking. There were quite a few weird dynamics happening in my life, too much of a perfect storm I guess. There was the divorced Nparents basically using the children as assets, and I was actually being physically abused (almost ritualistic in ways) by a psychopathic brother for about 16 years straight, evidently he bit a part of my ear off, and I remember almost knocked my eye out with a rock on another occasion, though granted, simply throwing it at me was his strict intent, most likely. He also used to pin me against my mattress for hours on end, hands behind my back, full weight against my ribs and head, and I think I remember difficulty breathing. The mother would simply come home and lambast that her house wasn't clean. Getting bullied at school didn't help, but that may have been because I was the loner who was half in a daze most of the time.

That's the trauma aspect, but If you look at symptoms of trauma and ADHD, depression, etc., many of the symptoms are similar. Of course, we were "one big loving family", so psychiatrists could only treat what they saw on the surface and put me on a couple of drugs for ADD. My mother actually had a huge part in it, and it probably brought her sympathy from the outside in her own mind. I don't think I was ever completely on a drug high, but I remember hearing a teacher's voice fade into nothingness, only to come back so loud it'd hurt my head, and ironically, I had a ton of trouble concentrating while on those drugs. I never connected the two at the time, but I think I might have been hallucinating in classes. Of course, if I told anyone, it probably would have been more drugs anyways. That's the blabberingly long version.

Ouch though, your NM would give your sister narcotics for headaches? Herself assuming she knows what a doctor who's taken years of medical school knows is quite a stretch of self efficacy. N's are prone to being drug addicts because of how addictive getting their N supply is, and in the absence of one addictive substance, the N has to turn to something else. Both my parents had alcoholic tendencies too. How'd your sister turn out though? Hopefully she didn't take the road laid by your NM.

sylah wrote:I've thought long and hard about why NPs kill/remove pets you love (my NM did this to me, too -- had animal control take away a cat I loved), why she went out of her way to prevent me from having any friends.

They want to be the gateway to what defines love for their victims. It's the ultimate in control -- you are not allowed to love anyone or anything other than the N.

YES!.I never got attached to pets. We had a family dog for years that I played with mildy, but I wouldn't let myself get too close to that do. I knew if I did-NM would put an end to it.

My NM would not let me socialize. I could leave the house for school-and that was it. She was horrible to my friends that were girls that would call the house for me-yet she was polite to my guy friends. It's like she wanted to drive away the girls so that just guys would call and she could use that to accuse me of being a whore. She also would tell people how "I didn't make friends easily". Yeah! because she wouldn't let me.

She didn't claim to be "my friend" she acted like a straight up jail warden. And that was on top of all her other mind games. And now she wonders why I wouldn't cross the street to see her.

Creepiest Thing my NM ever did? Out of all of the things she did? Well, well. She went out to dinner with my fiance's parents. She told them that I a) Would never stay married b) I was a slob c) would become an alcoholic d) was easy. My N husband brought it up again 9 years later. He was mad at me because he thought I was in love with his brother! (Who we rarely see cause we live in different states!) Thanks, mom. Because of you, I could not see the abuse I was living with; and when I did feel very bad and confused, I could not turn to you. And, the idea of leaving him would have proven her right. In the end, though, it may have been worth it. But I probably would have ended up in another N relationship. Now that I am older, wiser, awake from the confusion, distorted N sleep of abuse, I am working on leaving; after 30 years of marriage. I am not a slob. I am not an alcoholic and, even though with sex just 6 times a year and otherwise married to a Cerebral N, I have been faithful. It would have been easy to be easy.

I don't know what it is with Ns drugging their children. My NM got a psychiatrist to drug me, and the drugs made me hallucinate and become delusional. I remember lying in bed and hearing a robotic voice talking, and things like that. At the time I didn't know it was the drugs doing it and thought I really was crazy.

Star Kitten wrote:I don't know what it is with Ns drugging their children. My NM got a psychiatrist to drug me, and the drugs made me hallucinate and become delusional. I remember lying in bed and hearing a robotic voice talking, and things like that. At the time I didn't know it was the drugs doing it and thought I really was crazy.

Your NM sees your family and the world at large as a bunch of tools that revolve around her life, assets you could say. With the promise that drugs could modify the N's child's behavior to become more compliant, they have every reason to jump on board, no matter what realities they have to distort. Thinking back too, my mother actually double-dosed me from what the prescription said I should take. Like a fool, I went along with it, but when you have a parent who's practically ascended to godhood, you don't question it I guess.

Torched,

Sorry to hear about what you went through with your P brother! That sounds horrible and frightening to be pined down for hours against your matress & then your mom doesn't protect you ... and I also suppose it is easier for N/P parents to put their kids on psych. drugs rather than deal with their kids... sorry your parents did that to you...

"How'd your sister turn out though? Hopefully she didn't take the road laid by your NM."

Thanks for asking....my sister is a lot like my NM although she seems to have some empathy so hopefully the empathy I've seen is real and not just an act... what concerns me is that my sister is in her early 20's and she is an alcoholic...she's a functioning alcoholic, goes to work every day but she has to have alcohol on a daily basis....a few months ago I saw her very very waisted, like barely able to stand up... It broke my heart and reminded me of growing up when our mother would be like that...I know my sister also smokes marajuana, though I think she prefers alcohol and is a true alcoholic and not just a young adult who drinks now and then....I live in a different state than my sister so I feel helpless to help her and I don't think she would admit to having a problem....My NM almost destroyed the relationship I have with my sister by comparing the 2 of us for years on end...when needed to hurt my sister NM would make me the GC and her the Scapegoat...but most of the time my sister was/is the GC....since going NC with my NM my sister and I are getting a long much better....better than ever....but it's still a fragile relationship due to the B.S NM has said to her about me not loving my sister...blah..blah..blah....anyway........this is pretty much where it stands...

Star Kitten wrote:I don't know what it is with Ns drugging their children. My NM got a psychiatrist to drug me, and the drugs made me hallucinate and become delusional. I remember lying in bed and hearing a robotic voice talking, and things like that. At the time I didn't know it was the drugs doing it and thought I really was crazy.

So sorry Star.

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Hi Shellshockella,,

Just wondering can you pretend that you are taking the meds and then just throw them out??...It's horrible that you are living with your NM!!!...I really pray for an opportunity to open up for you to leave there!!!... I pray for your recovery from cancer too! ((hugs))

I'm thinking that my sister might be getting narcotics, anxiety meds and sleeping pills from my NM...when my sister wants them...I don't think my NM is giving them to my sister on a daily basis but I think at one point my NM may have gotten her addicted or atleast had her coming to NM on a recreational basis...(still bad)
Last time I saw my sister she made it a point to tell me that NM was not taking oxycontin anymore....yeah right....and I wondered why my sister wanted to make that a point....and how in the hell would she know anyway...

Thanks so much Lynn.

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I'm so sorry about your sister. Oxy is one step away from heroine, and there are some other prescription drugs that are even worse. I knew someone who died of Valium addiction. edited for safety

I truly hope you and your sister succeed in breaking free from this woman and healing in all ways.

hugs to you, lynn.

Hi Shell

This is a truly awful situaltion. How on earth was this able to happen? If you are an adult how are docturs able to go over your head at mother's insistence. I do understand how someone can get round everybody else so no one listens to you but at the end of the day aren't they supposed to deal with you as an idividual. Isn't there something in law about this - I mean how about confidentiality and so on? Is there any free legal advisory services out there. How has this ended up with you being forced to take these drug and threatened with hospitalisation? Even in a similar situation a Dr wd not get away with this in UK, they are pretty strict about not giving out info even to family members at the same surgery.

Have you actually had a specific diagnosis which warrants the taking of whatever it is? I don't understand if you are actually having the cancer treatment why you wd be a danger to yourself! In my experience it's never a good idea to try and explain what the N/P is like 2 others I think there is a useful section on JADEing somewhere here if your not already aware of that. Her interfference when you are vulnerable is probably making you feel really anxious a lot of the time and must be making you feel scared of what will happen if you stand up for yourself. Maybe it's something you hv 2 do tho. I don't mean confronting her or trying to explain - how about the complete opposie? Just quitely refusing to acknowleger her at all. Focus ou your treatment with Drs not her interference and if someone does mention her of something that sounds related you can either change the subject or politely say it's none of your business. Got 2 go sorry!

Sorry, I meant to add: can anyone throw any light upon how a situation like this is legally able to arise? Hoping all the best for you Shell