Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

This E-Course is brought to you by Sandra L. Brown, author of “How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved”, and by www.WomensSelfesteem.com

Sometimes our dangerous male choices, bad boy selections, and addictive relationships are really just manifestations of the parenting we endured when young. If we were unfortunate enough to live in homes in which one or both of our parents were abusive, addicted, or pathological our choices would be reflecting what did or did not happen in our own emotional development because of our pathological parenting. Pathological parenting, often referred to as self-absorbed parenting, can have significant and deep-seated effects on children and these effects often persist into adulthood.

Sometimes our choosing of dangerous men comes from replicating our own childhoods. Some women pick men that subconsciously ‘feel’ like early childhood dynamics. This is not a conscious decision but is driven by primitive and familial feelings and unmet needs. The dynamic is further re-enacted by women being victimized again in similar ways as she was in the home where a parent was abusive or pathological.

Pathological parenting involves:

Being non-responsive to another’s needs
Being self-absorbed, self-focused, and self-referencing
Being indifferent about other people
Having a lack of empathy for others
A lack of a core self (deep as Formica)
Shallow and quickly fleeting emotions
Doesn’t relate well to others
Wants constant admiration and attention
Feels special and unique
Is grandiose and arrogant

The result is pathological parents typically display the following kinds of parenting types and behaviors:

Blaming the child and others
Criticizing the child and others
Demeaning, devaluing, and demoralizing the child

Since the child has only known this kind of parenting, it is often difficult for the child to know there is something wrong with their parents. The child grows into adulthood still not knowing their parent is pathological. The result is the child/adult now has learned how to ‘normalize abnormal’ behavior because healthy behavior was never role modeled.

Typical of abusive and pathological parents is when the parents make the child ‘take care of them emotionally.’ This is often referred to as ‘emotional incest’ or ‘parentifying the child.’ In a healthy home, the parent emotionally meets the needs of a child and supports the child through the developmental process of becoming a separate individual and teen and ‘individuating’ or ‘separating enough to be your own self.’ In addictive, abusive, and pathological families children are not supported through these developmental periods. Instead, the parent expects for the child to meet their needs.

Were you a parentified child?

* Were you made to feel responsible for your parent’s feelings, well-being and/or general welfare?
* Did your parent seem to be indifferent or ignore your feelings much of the time?
* Were you frequently blamed, criticized, devalued or demeaned?
* When your parent was upset or displeased, were you the target of his or her negative feelings?
* Did you feel that you were constantly trying to please your parent only to fall short?

Do you remember hearing a parent say:

* Don’t you want me to feel good?
* You make me feel like a failure when you do ____
* You ought to care about me
* I feel like a good parent when someone praises you
* If you cared about me you would do what I want you to do

Child who were parentified or were victims of emotional incest or raised by abusive/addictive/pathological parents often have one of two reactions to their parenting. One is ‘compliance’. Do you have the following symptoms:

* Spends a great deal of time taking care of others (ha! Do it for a living, lol)
* Are constantly alert about acting in a way to please other or are very conforming
* Feels responsible for the feelings, needs, and welfare of others
* Tends to be self-depreciating (low self-esteem)
* Rushes to maintain harmony and to soothe other’s feelings
* Doesn’t get their needs met

The second reaction to this type of parenting is ‘rebellion.’ Often the adult child is defiant, withdrawn and insensitive to the needs of others. They build a wall around themselves to avoid being manipulated by others. They avoid responsibility resembling the kind of responsibility they had as children.

Adult children of Abusive/Addictive/Pathological parents normally have lives that consist of:

* They are dissatisfied with them selves and the course of their lives
* They are trying to be in emotional sync with others but find they are not successful at it
* They are constantly looking a their own flaws, incompetence, and other faults they perceive in themselves
* They do not have meaningful relationships in their lives
* They do not allow people to become emotionally close to them—they keep people at arms-length
* They feel like they lack meaning and purpose in their lives
* They have continuing relationship problems with family, friends, and work
* They feel isolated and disconnected from others
* They are often overwhelmed by other people’s expectations of them

People who were raised in these types of families often go on to develop relationships with people who resemble the dynamics they grew up with. Unconsciously, women often pick men who demonstrate on some level the kinds of behaviors their abusive parent did.

Women who do not recognize that they have grown up to ‘normalize abnormal behavior’ perpetuate the pattern of choosing dangerous men over and over again. They are stuck in a terrible cycle of self sabotage. (Read more about this in ‘How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved’.)

(Thanks to the article Parental Destructive Narcissism by Nina W. Brown for information on pathological parenting.)

In closing,
The only defense is self defense. And the only self defense is knowledge. This E-course will help you realize your potential need (or not) for future insight into the area of dangerousness. Perhaps it will illuminate areas that you need more knowledge about, more insight, or just information.

If after reading this third (class 3) installment of the E-course, you recognize your own patterns, please avail yourself to more information through www.WomensSelfesteem.com, or How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved or through your local women’s organizations and counseling programs. www.WomensSelfesteem.com/chat.html, D's Bistro, is a great resource for free live support from real women just like yourself.

SOURCE: http://www.womensselfesteem.com/page/page.cfm/dangerousrelationshipeclass3

Pretty_Lady · Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 554

louxloux, perhaps the best thing I could read right now.
Thanks for sharing. I am going to reply more later. Till then. Hugs, PL
_________________
The way out is through the door you came in.
R.D. Laing

petunia16 · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 104

Nail on the head for me, too.

I have always been in charge of my mother's fragile emotions. I can remember being young and taking care of myself and being proud if I could do more for myself because it would make mommy happy.

She was always depressed and sleeping... so, from an early age I learned to shut up, keep to myself and never ask for anything.

If Mom got a run in her stockings, had a bad day at work, got a stack of bills or any uncomfortable news, she would look to me for happiness, comfort and praise. I used to hide in my closet, which was my only safe haven. It's funny, even now when I feel upset, I yearn for that closet.

After visiting my father for the weekend, if I didn't come home complaining about my time with him, she would cry and get upset. "You want to leave ME and live with HIM, don't you??? You like his wife more than you like me!! I bet you HELP her with the dishes, you NEVER do any housework here!" I was 6 or something.

So, I picked a career... my little gift store... that attracts women. And I'm sensitive to the needs of women and if they are upset, I pick up on that immediately. I've spent the last 5 years listening to everyone else's problems... I jump through hoops for all of my customers, and the money just wasn't coming in. They would come in, unload their problems on me while being surrounded by pretty little things, not spend a dime and walk out. I would say over 30% of these ladies are emotional vampires... and really good at it, too. Talk about a huge life lesson here... I got nothing in return for giving them HOURS of my life. Just like with my Mother. I've cared, worried, doted and listened for HOURS... all for nothing. Silver lining... I learned that this is my problem to work on... and it's fixable.

So, I guess for all of us, that's the silver lining here... we can slowly re-program ourselves to tune them out... to care about ourselves and move on with our lives...

Slowly but surely, right? Smile

justmee · Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 692

Yes, this is me. The only difference is I reconized that their behavior was something I did not want. I made sure I would not end up living with a spouse like them....

thanks,
justmee
_________________
If you can not deal with it, or change it, then its time to walk away from it.

lynn1234 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 713

I felt the same as Justme...I also recognized my mother's behavior was something that I did not want in my life.. I chose a spouse who is careing, gentle and the complete opposite of my NM. Very Happy

Over the years the contrast between my married life and my childhood is so extreame that I still can't believe life can be this calm... I often feel though.. hypervigillant and tense over minor stresses and my husbands behavior usually calms me because he is usually always calm..I think the constant stressful environment of my past left me hypervigillant..

And....I also became a Nurse..so yes, I take care of other people's needs for a living.

louxloux · Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1532

Hi Everyone,

Although I can definitely identify with almost everything in this article... this one bit is what really hits home for me:

winter · Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

Thank you for the informative post. I remember being about 8 years old and telling my mom in a note that i would always take care of her, slipping it under her door (she was always sleeping or depressed or sick or just out).

I'm shocked still by how much of what I'm reading reflects my childhood and adult life (I'm in my 30's and just now starting to realize that what I have been dealing with isn't normal...better late than never, and there's a lot of work and a long road ahead for me, but i'm ready and that's why I'm here).

lynn1234 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 713

LouxLoux.....
I was thinking about your post and what you said about chosing guys who are the 'Bad Boy' type and emotionally unavailable...

It sounds like you are making progress by recognizing this pattern,,, you want to stop the pattern from happening and you understand your past and how it relates to your choice of men...
It sounds like you are tired of choosing the "bad boy" types...
Sounds like you are headed in the right direction...
Before I met my husband I was drawn to the same types....I felt like I was always either trying to fix a man or chaseing him down pineing for his love and affection.... repeating the same scenerios with my mother( solving all her problems.. trying to fix her and trying to get her to love me)
Finally I met my husband... there was no drama with him and at times I missed the drama and unpredictability that I was used to....I was used to living on edge and with him all was calm....For awhile I wasn't sure if I would be happy in such a calm and peaceful environment... it seemed boreing....But I saw in home the security and love I truly wanted... we married and it has taken me years to feel relaxed and open with him and to see the depth of love he had for me...
At times I thought he was critical if he suggested something.. sometimes I questioned his motives which were always to put me first but I had baggage from my past thinking "everyone is out for #1, themselves" so now I realize I had problems trusting him and being open and vulnerable with him....There were different areas in my life that I had to work through because of my past.....
Anyway.... I think you are on your way to being open to men who do care about you and will treat you the way you deserve to be treated...
The advice I can give is if you aren't seeing a counselor, therapist ... it would be a good idea to talk to someone about what is stopping you from haveing what you deeply desire....and someone who will keep you in check should you start to date someone who is not good for you....
Keep working through it.....you deserve better... it seems like you are on your way to making different and healthier choices...

lynn1234 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 713

I meant to say " I saw in him" not "home".

ooops!

Serenity · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 54

Hi louxloux,

I'm new here, so hello to you! I have been searching the net for information regarding `parentification', and came across your informative post and insightful responses.

I have been struggling for years to understand whether what I've suffered is childhood N-abuse. However whilst some of the information fit, a lot of it didn't. Its only recently that I've begun to understand that what occurred with me is I was parentified and spousified, by the child of an N. What an eye opener this has been.

My partner and I are each `children of the children of the self absorbed' lol. Both of us have grandmothers who easily fit the description of `extreme Narcissist', and mothers who are extremely damaged and emotionally hungry. Probably due to lack of knowledge and unavailability of education, they have each turned to using their children to fulfill their unmet emotional needs, whilst neglecting and ignoring our own.

A feature in both of our relationships with our mothers is constantly fending off emotional and financial blackmail, as well as `emotional dumping', intrusion, and angry demands for attention. Just this week my partner was sent an abusively angry letter from his mother because we were on vacation and didn't contact her. Luckily my partner has awesome boundaries with her, and it doesn't become an issue. But the pressure is a constant drain.

I think the hardest part of our lives is the fact that we each struggle with our boundaries in friendships, and being `used' as emotional props by needy people, who make it a condition of the friendship. We also struggle with assertiveness, self esteem, and aimless rebellion. In my case, deep depression was a feature of my youth. In my partner's, alcohol and even a period of drug abuse were a feature of his.

We make a fine pair, lol. But its good to finally have some words to describe what happened to us. I never really could understand, but now I am starting to.

Thanks again for the information.

petunia16 · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 104

Serenity...

I just got goosebumps reading your post because it hits the nail on the head for me!!!

I've been classifying my NM as an "N" but perhaps it's not that cut and dry...

"constantly fending off emotional and financial blackmail, as well as `emotional dumping', intrusion, and angry demands for attention."

This is how I feel in regards to my mother to a "T". Her mother is definitely an N, and I would say an extreme N. So, this all makes perfect sense.

Also... finding other female friends who walk all over me... needy people!!!

My mother's big beef with me right now is that I'm never grateful. It seems that "thank you" does not suffice and because she wasn't like her mother, I should be forever grateful. Always telling me that I don't appreciate her... bah.

Thanks so much for your post... I'm going to investigate this further!! Thank you thank you!

Serenity · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 54

Dear Pentunia,

Thanks SO much for writing; it is truly wonderful to meet you. I'm finding it a struggle to find information regarding parentification, but everything I've read so far is spot on. There are some books on the topic at at Amazon that look amazing. I think i will have to buy one or two.

Yes, I've been thinking of my mother as an N for years too. But recently, I have been digging and digging and I learned that `the Golden Child' typically is the one who develops NPD, due being raised as if they can do no wrong. The `Abused children' can have a lot of N'ish qualities, but they retain their empathy, and can grow.

It IS a big weight off, realizing where I fit in the scheme of things.

Also... finding other female friends who walk all over me... needy people!!!

Lol, thats been a feature in my life too. I am so sorry to hear you've been through the same; its a world of hurt, having one-way friendships like that. Such women can let you down at the worst possible times.

The latest book abstract I read mentioned that some features of a parentified child's character can be trying to act out their parent's Narcissistic projections and submission, or both. We apparently struggle to find and follow our own unique life path, due to buried shame and guilt that `block' us.

Parentified children can have panic attacks and suffer agoraphobia and addictions to cope with buried shame.

Well, its somewhere to start, I suppose. I am still tring to wrap my head around the information I've ganed so far.

Hugs to you Pentunia. Please let me know if you find any more info

X Serenity

Serenity · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 54

I've found some more info, if anyone is interested:

Abstract:
The current study, utilizing a group of 197 undergraduate students, found that childhood parentification is associated with shame-proneness in adults (when the shared variance with guiltproneness is controlled). Parentification, the reversal of parent and child roles, requires a premature identification with the parent(s)' expectations and needs, at the expense of the development of the child's true talents and gifts, often leaving the child feeling ashamed of the true self's unrewarded strivings. This finding is linked theoretically to an earlier study that found a relationship between childhood parentification and both narcissistic and masochistic personality characteristics (Jones & Wells, 1996). A secondary finding supported a predicted relationship between guilt and shame. Clinicians are encouraged to attend to the possibilities of these connections when planning and executing treatment plans with parentified adults.

Also, another article I found is here called `let kids be kids':

http://www.fww.org/famnews/0402b.html

lynn1234 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 713

Serenity...

Thanks for posting the info about Parentified relationships...
I have always been a mother to my NM and she used to also dump her emotional baggage on me... gripes she had with my step-dad, stress she had from bills, agruements she had with friends etc...

I also wanted to ask since you brought it up...if anyone here has had agoraphobia..? I have started to become somewhat agoraphobic in the last year... I still go to work but cut down to part time somewhat due to agoraphobia and migraines/fatigue... I still leave the house and am fine on vacations since my husband and I are always together on vacations it cuts down on the stress of going out.. But I try to avoid travelling alone.. like to stick near my home as much as possible avoiding car travel as much as possible unless totally necessary.. I have skipped functions and errands because I fear something will happen to me if I leave the house(car accident or death) But I love to be out so I force myself to leave the house to shop.. usually mostly with my husband though... and I have no choice but to work so I did the next best thing.. went part time...I would like to work from home so I wouldn't have to go out... But like I said I also enjoy going out atleast once a week to do something fun..so when I am in the mood I and it's something I am really looking forward to doing I will put my fears aside and go.... Anyone else have or had this problem..
I know another ACON who was agoraphobic as a teen/early 20's. She is fine now.. no agoraphobia.

Serenity · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 54

Dear Lynn,

Yes, I have had periods of panic attacks and also mild agoraphobia in my late 20's. I never really understood what they were about.

My only guess , from what I've read so far, is that these are symptoms of a `shame cycle' being in progress. The shame cycle could be triggered by any number of things, I suppose. It is said that parentified children would experience intense shame when they operate outside of their `assigned role as care-giver', such as displaying independence, self-actualization, and paying attention to ones own needs over the parents.

For example if your parent required you to act out their life dreams, then a shame cycle might be triggered when you act out your own unique dreams instead of their's. Its so tricky, because its hard to know exactly what we've internalized.

Lynn the shame is buried deeply within me. I don't always understand it. But, yeah, I get the weird symptoms from time to time.

I hope some of this helps:)

hugs to you!